boxing history

[J !]

Come on, flex that boxing brain lets here it for the old timers

[KidBlackie]

Come on, flex that boxing brain lets here it for the old timers

OK, now we're cooking with gas.

I tell ya, boxing is chock full of forgotten greats. Sam Langford hasn't been forgotten as much as he never got his just dues. Over 300 fights, most of them heavy bouts and the last 100 when he was blind. He spanned the highest FULL original weight classes long before the flashy Leonards, Oscars and Roys got paid emperor's wages to do a poor imitation of Sam by coming up sub classes. Sam never got a title shot in any weight class and had the biggest name of his era, Jack Johnson, ducking him, taking lesser money to fight lesser journeymen for Johnson's belt.

Sam did rank 15th in recent IBRO heavy rankings and 3rd in their LH rankings, but I really don't think that does him justice. He is one of the great p4p fighters in history, easily top 10. 99.9% of boxing fans today have never heard of Langford. He is only known by the few who have studied a little boxing history.

[jabsRstiff]

Langford scored a quick KO of Tiger Flowers, who was that era's version of Pernell Whitaker.
That's just one of his many amazing feats.

[barryboy]

Your right there's loads of fighters from boxing's past that are simply forgotten for one reason or another, I'm sure it was Eddie Futch who said Charlie Burley was one of the best fighters he'd ever seen and he'd seen plenty, Rockin who is part of this site was at the gym with Bill Miller the Detroit trainer probably most known for working with James Toney & he said if we wanted we could ask Bill any questions we liked so I asked who was the best fighter Bill had worked with that hadn't made it to the big time, here is his response:

Lester Felton, a fighter from Detroit that Bill had the oppertunity to work with. "It was in the 50's, boy he was smooth." Bill rolls his hands in mimicing the blows delivered. "That boy could fight.... Ya know I went with him and worked his corner when he fought kid Gavillan here in Detroit, Lester put a whoopin' on him." Bills great smile crosses his face as he leans over to nudge me, "That boy had a great jab, movement.... very much like Robinson. But he could just never seem to win the big one. "After Gavillan I went with him a while later after they brought Ike Williams in to fight 'em. Lester ran..........." Williams would drop Felton in the 2nd round and from that point on, "Lester didnt want no part of him" Feltons record in the books shows that he faced many quality fighters, but never won the big one. When asked why Felton could never win the big one Bill raised his arms and smiled, "He should have, he was a talented fighter."

That's what I'm talking about, the guy obviously had talent & plenty of ability but how many have heard of him I wonder? That's why these old school trainers are irreplaceable cos they have so much knowledge to pass on & the more we hear about these unheralded fighters the better.

[bombadier]

I have a Langford clip I can bring in for you guys against Fireman Jim Flynn.

[barryboy]

That'd be cool but I don't know how you go about it.

[J !]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...480#post953480

cos i know some of you w3ill find this interesting and have good stuff to add.

can post replies in here or in main thread, thanks Bomb, great conv so far mate!

[bombadier]

No problem but I am humbled by the boxing knowledge possessed by a lot of the guys here. I know what I know but have some gaps, you guys are historians in the true sense.

[J !]

Bomb you can more than hold your own mate.

[KidBlackie]

[[[OK coloured guys who should have had a crack at Dempsey off the top of my noggin

Harry Wills you have metioned
SAM LANGFORD DUDE!!!!(who would have DEFINTELY kicked his ass)
Sam Mcvea
Joe Jeanette

that four for starters if I researched it I bet i can find another 6 piss easy.]]]
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Uh oh, well, Langford and Dempsey are particular favs of mine, so I hate to tell you but but your timing in this case, if translated to the ring, would get you KOed in the first 30 secs of any fight.

Dempsey gained the title in 1919. Langford started a decline around this time as did McVea and Jeannette. Wills was the dominate black heavy while Dempsey held the title. Some folks mention Larry Gains, but he seldom fought in the states and peaked around the latter part of Dempsey's reign. Godfrey started boxing around a year after Jack won his title and was Dempsey's sparring partner for his novice phase.

Dempsey sort of ruined his career by trying to make a match with Wills. Jack had to dump Rickard and Kearns, signed to meet Wills, and was stiffed on his guarantee by the promoter who was struggling for financial backing and a venue for the fight. Jack needed money so he fought exhibitions and appeared in movies and theater, going Hollywood, and didn't defend for 3 yrs. He made over 2 million bucks during this phase, so there was no incentive to fight until Rickard offered him almost a million bucks to fight Tunney.

Sam was starting to be dominated by Wills and even dropped a decision to Bill Tate who was also a Dempsey sparring parnter. Don't get me wrong, Sam was still very dangerous, but he was also half blind by then. By '22 he'd drifted over to El Paso and started to cross over to Mexico and pretty much finished his career there.

It is true that Sam wanted to fight Jack, but Jack would always joke that Sam was too tough. Sam's prime years were the Johnson/Willard years which were 11 yrs total. Johnson was offered the Langford title fight defense at least a couple of times by promoters but always refused. I never heard of Dempsey ever being offered the fight except for one time when he was a skinny 160 lb hobo in NYC being fleeced by NY's finest confidence men for a series of fights in Harlem. Jack ate in soup kitchens, slept on park benches, and whupped up on Harlem's finest, but rode the rails back home, penniless, with a broken rib. The conman promoter wanted him to fight Langford and Dempsey wouldn't do it. He knew Langford was the best in the world and Dempsey was just a hobo trying to upgrade his comp and figured he was getting screwed big time.