Does Mayweather/Ortiz enhance or take away from Mayweather's Legacy?

[joseph5620]

Exactly per what you quoted, I said "for the most part legacy is decided by fan and people's perception of a fighters career." While yes a poll on NSB can be somewhat of an indicator of public perception. At NO TIME did I say legacy is determined by an NSB poll.

Listen, Jack Dempsey did dirtier things in the ring than Mayweather. Has that defined his legacy? No. Roberto Duran did dirtier things including a blatant low blow to win his first championship. Add to that Duran once quit in the middle of a fight out of frustration. That does not define his legacy. In fact he's more popular than ever now. Many of the people voting in NSB will vote one way with an agenda no matter what the outcome. So when you say this vote is an "indicator" it really isn't because it does not represent the entire boxing community. It only represents a segment.



As it stands most of the professional boxers, trainers, and pundits I've seen interviewed do not have problem with what Mayweather and are unsympathetic towards Ortiz.. If you are disappointed as a fan, that's understandable. If you say it was "bad sportsmanship" OK.But to imply that this fight somehow defines his standing in history is ridiculous. Especially when Mayweather didn't do anything illegal and Ortiz was dirty(and stupid) himself.

[DrewWoodside]

great...it became a Jordan convo

"Jordan's Push" is probably the best paralel possible for debating and better understanding this topic. Everyone should be happy Zelenoff's Hartley KO isn't a talking point! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxumQTjBLgY

[DrewWoodside]

Listen, Jack Dempsey did dirtier things in the ring than Mayweather. Has that defined his legacy? No. Roberto Duran did dirtier things including a blatant low blow to win his first championship. Add to that Duran once quit in the middle of a fight out of frustration. That does not define his legacy. In fact he's more popular than ever now. Many of the people voting in NSB will vote one way with an agenda no matter what the outcome. So when you say this vote is an "indicator" it really isn't because it does not represent the entire boxing community. It only represents a segment.



As it stands most of the professional boxers, trainers, and pundits I've seen interviewed do not have problem with what Mayweather and are unsympathetic with Ortiz.. If you are disappointed as a fan, that's understandable. If you say it was "bad sportsmanship" OK.But to imply that this fight somehow defines his standing in history is ridiculous. Especially when Mayweather didn't do anything illegal and Ortiz was dirty(and stupid) himself.

I agree with everything you are saying, but I'm not saying the KO punch defines Mayweather's standing in history. I was just asking what ppl's opinions were on how this fight affects Mayweather's legacy. I also think ppl's opinion can be somewhat of an indicator. I do not at all think it's an accurate indicator. But at this point in the evolution of how this fight is viewed, a poll can tell part of the story.

A lot of times, details, even the uglier ones. Like those you mentioned with Duran, slip away over time. However, I just think with the clock running down and Mayweather IMO trying to bolster his legacy as his career winds down.. He is likely looking for big pro mayweather statements with his fights.

[joseph5620]

[QUOTE=DrewWoodside;11212700]I agree with everything you are saying, but I'm not saying the KO punch defines Mayweather's standing in history. I was just asking what ppl's opinions were on how this fight affects Mayweather's legacy. I also think ppl's opinion can be somewhat of an indicator. I do not at all think it's an accurate indicator. But at this point in the evolution of how this fight is viewed, a poll can tell part of the story.

A lot of times, details, even the uglier ones. Like those you mentioned with Duran, slip away over time. However, I just think with the clock running down and Mayweather IMO trying to bolster his legacy as his career winds down.. He is likely looking for big pro mayweather statements with his fights.[QUOTE]

I agree and at this point the only thing that can really define his career is Pacquiao. It has to happen.

[The Gambler1981]

Yes, but something about the stigma behind "Cheap Shotting" goes against the very spirit and reason people watch boxing in the first place. Which is the reason this ending has become such a huge talking point. Whether it's the same in term of sportsmanship(and you can argue what Floyd did was more legal than what Jordan did,) it is perceived as not sporting and per above against the spirit or honor of the sport.

Whether that is correct/valid or not is anyone's guess, but it's the reason people keep discussing it. But as long as people debate it and are uncertain as to what to make of it, it lacks a certain luster.

If it was the first punch sure, but the first punch didn't take him out. It was the second punch, so he had clear warning because he already got punched, what did he do look away~

Ortiz failed a very basic boxing test, I can't fault Floyd for Ortiz failing the most very basic rule in boxing, especially after he already got punched once so he could have at least tried to not get punched but he did nothing of the sort.

Straight up, Floyd can't win like that and get love just not how he is viewed but it does actually play into his part so does it hurt him no and in the grand scheme in boxing to me there was no way Ortiz was really doing anything for him, would people be less outraged if Floyd won in a normal fashion sure but I wouldn't expect it to matter at all really it would be something else only less talked about.

Generally speaking memorable and getting talked about are good, Floyd wins a more normal way the fight garners a lot less attention post fight. For Floyd that will end up good, because he is already the bad guy and in taht situation with Ortiz Floyd did what the bad guy (in most peoples mind) would do.

[DrewWoodside]

If it was the first punch sure, but the first punch didn't take him out. It was the second punch, so he had clear warning because he already got punched, what did he do look away~

Ortiz failed a very basic boxing test, I can't fault Floyd for Ortiz failing the most very basic rule in boxing, especially after he already got punched once so he could have at least tried to not get punched but he did nothing of the sort.

Straight up, Floyd can't win like that and get love just not how he is viewed but it does actually play into his part so does it hurt him no and in the grand scheme in boxing to me there was no way Ortiz was really doing anything for him, would people be less outraged if Floyd won in a normal fashion sure but I wouldn't expect it to matter at all really it would be something else only less talked about.

Generally speaking memorable and getting talked about are good, Floyd wins a more normal way the fight garners a lot less attention post fight. For Floyd that will end up good, because he is already the bad guy and in taht situation with Ortiz Floyd did what the bad guy (in most peoples mind) would do.

Yeah, I was irritated b/c I wanted to see the whole fight and it play out naturally. But one of my first thoughts was as a fan of boxing, a result like this is good for boxing. And Great for the way Mayweather sells his fights. All and all, I would just really like to see a good fight play out. Summer of 2011 has been extremely lacking. I also had tickets to Ward/Froch.. I'm dying to watch a fight!

[DrewWoodside]

[QUOTE=joseph5620;11212716][QUOTE=DrewWoodside;11212700]I agree with everything you are saying, but I'm not saying the KO punch defines Mayweather's standing in history. I was just asking what ppl's opinions were on how this fight affects Mayweather's legacy. I also think ppl's opinion can be somewhat of an indicator. I do not at all think it's an accurate indicator. But at this point in the evolution of how this fight is viewed, a poll can tell part of the story.

A lot of times, details, even the uglier ones. Like those you mentioned with Duran, slip away over time. However, I just think with the clock running down and Mayweather IMO trying to bolster his legacy as his career winds down.. He is likely looking for big pro mayweather statements with his fights.

I agree and at this point the only thing that can really define his career is Pacquiao. It has to happen.

I wish they would just fight so boxing junkies didn't have to twiddle their thumbs and go back and forth for hours over minor details and random happenings.

[The Gambler1981]

Yeah, I was irritated b/c I wanted to see the whole fight and it play out naturally. But one of my first thoughts was as a fan of boxing, a result like this is good for boxing. And Great for the way Mayweather sells his fights. All and all, I would just really like to see a good fight play out. Summer of 2011 has been extremely lacking. I also had tickets to Ward/Froch.. I'm dying to watch a fight!

I haven't been bothered by that because I believe the fight was already going downhill, Ortiz gave his best effort in round four and really did nothing, then he fell apart.

So to me he was already falling apart, so it was only a matter of time before that fight went south on him in a hurry.

I feel that though because I would much rather watch a fight play out, but all it takes is one mistake for a boxing match to end and that was one whopper of a mistake. Good to see that from time to time also.

[tangalog2200]

Yes, but something about the stigma behind "Cheap Shotting" goes against the very spirit and reason people watch boxing in the first place. Which is the reason this ending has become such a huge talking point. Whether it's the same in term of sportsmanship(and you can argue what Floyd did was more legal than what Jordan did,) it is perceived as not sporting and per above against the spirit or honor of the sport.

Whether that is correct/valid or not is anyone's guess, but it's the reason people keep discussing it. But as long as people debate it and are uncertain as to what to make of it, it lacks a certain luster.

very well said.....

a win that is hounded by a lot of big questions could not be taken to enhance a fighter's legacy....

sportsmanship still matters in boxing and is over and above anything else...

unless boxing is no longer considered as a sport...

[Doctor_Tenma]

In what way? It enhances his resume with an extra win and an extra knockout, but when they marvel about his career years from now what exactly about the fight enhanced his profile? What could they say about the fight that would reflect positively? I can't think of anything.

Ortiz was the champ coming off an impressive performance, it is what it is, had Ortiz not taken the route that he did (Intentionally headbutting) things could have ended the way most would have wanted, but that wasn't the case so we move on. Still, how doesn't this enhance his legacy? He won fair and square against a solid opponent.