Comments Thread For: A Rose, By Any Other Name… Still Doesn’t Deserve It

[fitzbitz]

My contention with Rose was that his issues were completely off the field, which they were. On the field, he had more hits than anyone. So... banning him from the game forever is one thing, but closing your eyes and pretending he wasn't one of the greatest players who ever lived just seems silly to me, and in my view it cheapens the Hall of Fame.

[richardt]

[QUOTE=JakeNDaBox;12592214]If it's only about fame, then start reserving a spot for Saul Alvarez and Julio Cesar Chavez. QUOTE]Bingo! Gatti is not Hall of Fame by any stretch of the imagination. Unless they have a Hall of Fame for specifics like "The Greatest Hearts" or "21st Century Warriors" then Gatti does not belong. It comes down to accomplishments against the elite. Anything else would be a spin.

[Light_Speed]

They give awards every year for fight of the year, Ive never seen that award for technical boxing performance of the year...

They also give fighter of the year awards and there's the top 10 P4P rankings to recognize the very best fighters in the world.

[4Corners]

Gatti shouldn't get in.

Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo had better careers than Gatti and better wins, and provided possibly one of the greatest fights ever. They should be in before Gatti. Gatti shouldn't get in.

[hhs661]

IMO, Gatti shouldn't go into the HOF and I, like many on here, loved seeing his fights

[TurboFart]

What is with the Gatti hate on this website?

Do you ****ing bozos think that Gatti's admittance is going to somehow diminish the accomplishments of the other boxers inducted into the hall? Somehow Sylvester Stallone's contributions to boxing will lose gravitas?

Gatti deserves to be in the Hall. His accomplishment is heart, his skill is courage. Maybe one man in a hundred million could match his heart and his courage and in that way he was exceptional. Besides, the guy wasn't a total ****ing bum, he was a World Champion after all.

[thunder4eva]

This is probably the same person who voted for Sylvester Stallone. Gatti is what boxing is and always will be. He made a bigger impact on the sport than most HOF inductees. Its fighters like him who continues to bring fans into the sport and help keep it alive long after their careers are over. People won't be watching Mayweather fights 50 years from now but they'll be replaying Gatti fights until the end of time. I believe he even fought on HBO more than most of the top fighters and future HOF’s of his time. That's someone who should be a no brainer when voting into the hall of fame.

[-Kev-]

Nothing can erase the fact that Pete Rose is the all-time leader in hits.

I'm pretty sure that Pete Rose will be inducted in to the HOF after he dies. They will forgive him, and that's a shame that he won't be alive to see that. The HOF refuses to give Pete Rose "Flowers While He Can Still Smell Them". It's been what, like 20 years since the gambling thing. The problem is, he bet against his OWN team, while managing them.

[hillbilly]

By Lyle Fitzsimmons

As a Cincinnati Reds fan, I’ve been saying it for 25 years.

Though he’s long been known for a loathsome personality, one Peter Edward Rose has more hits than anyone else who’s ever played major league baseball. Which means, without his plaque on the wall in the bucolic enclave of Cooperstown, N.Y., the National Baseball Hall of Fame is a fraud.

Meanwhile, just 69 miles northwest in the Syracuse suburb of Canastota, another such statement can be made about the home of stars in another sport. Though he had a career most would envy, if Arturo Gatti makes it onto the wall there next year, then the International Boxing Hall of Fame is an abject failure.

And with apologies to election-season poll heads, “likeability factor” should have nothing to do it.

While Rose is by consensus a lying egomaniac with a bloated sense of self, his performance on the field is measurably as good as anyone who’s ever gripped a bat. It’s a stark contrast to Gatti, who admittedly thrilled a generation of wide-eyed fans, but fell flat – literally – against the best of his peers.

Rose – a rookie of the year, an MVP, a three-time batting champion and a 17-time all-star – has been barred from enshrinement for more than two decades by voting rules concocted to punish him for being defiant, rather than reverential, when it came to explaining off-field foibles. [Click Here To Read More]

Fitzsimmons demonstrates an "abject" lack of knowledge or understanding about baseball and gambling. It is an undisputed fact that gambling almost ruined professional baseball. the 1919 black sox scandal almost destroyed "america's game." After that scandal, there was 1 and only 1 cardinal rule in baseball--you do not bet on baseball. This is known as Rule 21D. It makes no distinction between betting for or against your team. it is a blanket prohibition. If you walk into any major league locker room, it is posted prominently in multiple places. Ask any player, hell, any bat boy, they know it is the ultimate baseball sin.

Pete Rose knowingly broke this rule. Not only did baseball uncover clear records of him gambling on baseball while he was a player (in 1985 and 1986), they had his daily gambling records as a manager in 1987. He bet on games he played in and managed. In light of this, Rose accepted, that's right, accepted a lifetime ban from the game. And he deserved it.

Rose's only "defense" is that he never bet against the Reds. Or so he says. He denied betting on baseball until 2004--15 years after he was banned. And by denied, I mean lied through his teeth every opportunity that he got. Moreover, baseball's investigators felt strongly that Rose had indeed bet against the reds and the only reason baseball never made formal findings as such was because Rose accepted a lifetime ban so formal findings wouldn't be made.

Rose's defense isn't a defense. Even if he didn't bet against the reds, which is doubtful, the rule bars betting of any kind. He put his neck in the noose. let him hang. The hall of fame is about more than just recognizing players that were great. it is also about recognizing players that made baseball, as a sport, great. great to watch, great to root for, great to be a part of. Rose forfeited all of that when he chose to bet on the game.

[hillbilly]

Nothing can erase the fact that Pete Rose is the all-time leader in hits.

I'm pretty sure that Pete Rose will be inducted in to the HOF after he dies. They will forgive him, and that's a shame that he won't be alive to see that. The HOF refuses to give Pete Rose "Flowers While He Can Still Smell Them". It's been what, like 20 years since the gambling thing. The problem is, he bet against his OWN team, while managing them.

No, he won't. Shoeless Joe Jackson died over 60 years ago. he is still banned. Rose will stay banned as well.