Who is the greatest of all time? P4P? Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather or RJJ?

[ShoulderRoll]

That's a lot of chutzpah for a guy bragging about no gag reflex.

I still can't get your puke stain out of my carpet!

Safe Spaces, you're the last one who should be criticizing anyone for saying things that aren't true. You're very calling card is a lie.

Now, ofcourse I never claimed Greb passes the eye test. But again, wecan refer to footage of Loughran, Walker, Tunney, Dempsey and Gibbons. It's unquestionable that those are fighters who'd - at worst - win virtual shut-outs over every other top Middleweightever. Robinson included.

I don't have to see a cheetah to know that if it can catch an antelope it's really fookin fast. Faster than any other cat.

Have you ever seen a Bear kill a bison, or chase a wolf pack off a kill? Would you need to see that footage to make the judgement that you, Safe Spaces and every other human that has ever lived, have no business starting sh.it with a Bear because it would destroy you?

It just goes to further prove what we all know about you: you can't go balls-deep, and you can't apply common sense to anything.

Blah blah blah. White boxers rule, black boxers suck.

We get it. Your agenda is transparent.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Blah blah blah. White boxers rule, black boxers suck.

We get it. Your agenda is transparent.

Prove I believe that.

I've never said it. My posts don't display that belief.

Iwill say that many Black fightersare over-rated and their story has been sold based on believed oppression, often at the expense of better White fighters. But no race is better than any either.

[ShoulderRoll]

Prove I believe that.

I've never said it. My posts don't display that belief.

Iwill say that many Black fightersare over-rated and their story has been sold based on believed oppression, often at the expense of better White fighters. But no race is better than any either.

You've been banned for racism several times already.

I'm sure another ban is on the way shortly.

But in the meantime please do go on...tell us more about how badly Sugar Ray Robinson sucks.

[TonyGe]

Prove I believe that.

I've never said it. My posts don't display that belief.

Iwill say that many Black fightersare over-rated and their story has been sold based on believed oppression, often at the expense of better White fighters. But no race is better than any either.

And the other way around. Plenty of white fighters historically didn't even fight black fighters for various reasons Some fighters didn't for personal reasons and some others didn't because of public hostility.

[travestyny]

Prove I believe that.

I've never said it. My posts don't display that belief.

Iwill say that many Black fightersare over-rated and their story has been sold based on believed oppression, often at the expense of better White fighters. But no race is better than any either.

When are you going tell us how Greb passes your #1 criteria of "the eye test" and how you justify your "eye test" making Lomachenko #3 All Time P4P?

That is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. I mean gottdayummm. You can strike 2, 4, and 5 from Lomachenko, but that damn eye test of yours and "innovation" shot him all the way up to #3 huh? Somehow no word on how the no possible eye test on Greb holds him at #1. lol.

So the question we have about your eye test is.....what's wrong with your eyes? They apparently take a liking to a certain tone?


And why do I get the feeling that Robinson got a "pity vote"

[billeau2]

- -Different rules in different eras.

How many heavies could beat Tom Cribb under his era and conditions?

Same goes for Babe, Gehrig, and Ted Williams in baseball.

That most here lack historical context is a problem. They might not even be exposed to boxing or baseball in today's world full of a boggling array of career options.

Even diagnosed ADD to be put on strong drugs, esp Babe!!!

And that...Is a gem. Sig worthy again!! I could not agree more. I think from what you say you work/worked in a similar field as I did for a while. i was a Psych tech, and learned a lot about how crisis mental health issues are dealt with. Our unit was the emergency unit, and because we were a private hospital, the treatment was humane... but when I left they were still using things like electro shock voluntary, but still electro shock.

So I was a kid who got in trouble, this was the mid sixties... My mother told me they had all those drugs around back then...I thought that these treatments started later, but in fact we have a long history of taking our brightest and best, and dulling them down. How sad.

On the first part of the post, I also agree. I do think that sometimes the socioeconomics will change the level of athletes and interest in a sport, and make the players stronger. I'm undecided on if this is absolute in baseball, I think it is the case in football... When it became a real money maker, for the colleges, etc the players got bigger, stronger, faster...as much as I loved guys like Artie Donovan... its just not the same level of athlete involved.

Nice post.

[billeau2]

Insightful post as always.

I like the points about football and baseball, even I don't completely agree with every point.

As it regards to Jones, yes his competition was poor and he had a weak chin, but the version we got would be handful for most fighters of most eras.
It's questionable how good he would have been in an era absent PEDs, or which tested as seriously as we currently do today.

Jones is definitly a fighter who had the gifts to compete at the highest level. We then have to get into a whole thing about fighers who are able to exploit the weaknesses of other fighters... As opposed to fighters who do what they do. For example if Jones fought LaMotta, Lamotta is not going to suddenly realize a jab is what is needed and pick JOnes apart lol. My point is that LaMOtta is LaMOtta and is a pressure fighter through and through who will apply pressure continually until either he cannot, or the final bell rings.

But there were guys like Tunney who had two traditions to draw upon, who could make adjustments in the ring, and who could exploit a weakness when found. This is a different kettle of fish.

Lets talk the roids... Here is an interesting point. When the human body gets too big, running will destroy the joints. Fighters did roadwork and even fighters like Galento had to be light enough, in their mind to do this work. Galento actually talks about running at night for his roadwork. Coming in to a fight, at the lighter end of the spectrum, with great cardio had a lot of advantages. i don't think there is any proof that roiding is more of an advantage. it helps mostly with recovery and with building muscle, both of which do not directly affect a fighter in the ring.

For example, James Toney benefitted from roids because it helped him with an injury, that is recovery in action. My point is, I don't yet see an advantage to new ways of building muscle, roiding and performance. Ortiz had a beautiful physique lot of good it did him against stick man! i would have to question how much roids helped any fighter as compared to knowing the sport, keeping the body healthy (not easy) and taking care of oneself. Do you think Hopkins Roids? I dont know.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You've been banned for racism several times already.

I'm sure another ban is on the way shortly.

But in the meantime please do go on...tell us more about how badly Sugar Ray Robinson sucks.

So you agree, no other Middleweight, including Robinson, could beat the likes of Dempsey (who denied Greb a shot at the championship), Tunney, Gibbons, Loughran and Walker?

[Htown-Finest]

Greatest at what? The rest of us are talking about Boxing.

Ray Robinson is BOXING. Do your homework youngin

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ray Robinson is BOXING. Do your homework youngin

I've forgotten more about Boxing than you'll ever know.


Robinson's charisma gained him the P4P moniker. If you really believe he's the best P4P you've fallen for a marketing strategy.

Probably you think McDonald's serves real food, too.

With the advent of the internet we can do actual research and put folklore to the test.

There are clearly better fighters than Robinson, great as he might be.