If a prime uninjured Patterson vs Clay

[Sugarj]

Peak Patterson 1956 vs 1967 Ali is a closer fight for me than many would imagine, Floyd Patterson at his best was lightning fast, his left was clocked slightly faster than Ali's.

I dont think that Floyd's glass chin was really too much at threat from Ali's power although I think he may touch down at some point. I see a faily close decision for Ali, a 9-6 or 10-5. I rate a peak Patterson fairly highly.

[TheGreatA]

Peak Patterson 1956 vs 1967 Ali is a closer fight for me than many would imagine, Floyd Patterson at his best was lightning fast, his left was clocked slightly faster than Ali's.

I dont think that Floyd's glass chin was really too much at threat from Ali's power although I think he may touch down at some point. I see a faily close decision for Ali, a 9-6 or 10-5. I rate a peak Patterson fairly highly.

His chin seemed to take Ali's punches pretty well in both of their fights.

Then again I don't think he really had a "glass jaw". It was definitely his greatest vulnerability though.

[Sugarj]

The back really hampered him in 1965, he was wrongly reduced to a one punch at a time plodder against Ali...........but he showed so much courage!

[mickey malone]

Patterson's biggest weakness was his lack of size... I think he would have beaten Michael Spinks, Ezzard Charles, Gene Tunney, Bob Foster & possibly Archie Moore at light heavy, but he wasn't quite there as a heavy..
He'd never have beaten Clay/Ali period, but as SugarJ points out, prime 4 prime, it would have been a lot closer than the 2 fights that did take place..

[Sugarj]

I agree Mickey, he may well have beaten those guys at light heavy or at least won fights in a series with each. Its a shame the cruiserweight division didn't exist, he'd have surely ruled there. That said there are quite a few former heavyweight champions who really were today's cruiserweight.

I liked the way Cus D'Amato seemed to get such electrifying hand speed and combinations out of Patterson and Tyson. It would be great to see more footage of both of them training under Cus. Its a shame he didn't have many other top drawer heavyweights under his charge, he was obviously a terrific trainer and mentor.

[mickey malone]

I agree Mickey, he may well have beaten those guys at light heavy or at least won fights in a series with each. Its a shame the cruiserweight division didn't exist, he'd have surely ruled there. That said there are quite a few former heavyweight champions who really were today's cruiserweight.

I liked the way Cus D'Amato seemed to get such electrifying hand speed and combinations out of Patterson and Tyson. It would be great to see more footage of both of them training under Cus. Its a shame he didn't have many other top drawer heavyweights under his charge, he was obviously a terrific trainer and mentor.

With regard to the cruisers, names that come to mind are Dempsey & Marciano.. They generally get rated above Patterson, because they could absorb more punishment, but on boxing terms, they were miles behind.. Floyd had the fastest hands of all the heavies 4 sure..

[TheGreatA]

I agree Mickey, he may well have beaten those guys at light heavy or at least won fights in a series with each. Its a shame the cruiserweight division didn't exist, he'd have surely ruled there. That said there are quite a few former heavyweight champions who really were today's cruiserweight.

I liked the way Cus D'Amato seemed to get such electrifying hand speed and combinations out of Patterson and Tyson. It would be great to see more footage of both of them training under Cus. Its a shame he didn't have many other top drawer heavyweights under his charge, he was obviously a terrific trainer and mentor.

Jose Torres was another great D'Amato trained/peek-a-boo style fighter.

[Silencers]

I think Ali still would've won but Patterson would've been more competitive and wouldn't have gotten toyed around with. He was very fast with his leaping left hook in his prime, a punch Ali was always open to, I don't think 1 punch from Patterson would've been enough to knock Ali out though. Ali by late knockout or clear decision.

[Sugarj]

Hi Mickey, Hi GreatA,

Yes Floyd's boxing ability was excellent, he could be a bit of a slow starter but his hands were lightning fast. I think I read that in a head to head comparision with Ali that Floyd's left was clocked faster but Ali's right shaded Floyd's, footspeed was also with Ali. That said, on the combination front there couldn't be much in it, when Floyd let his hands go it could be quite a blur.

Controversial I know but I might rate Floyd's left hook as better than Frazier's, only slightly less powerful but much faster, plus he could throw it much further back from a leap.

Good call GreatA on the late Mr Torres, he was a good light heavy. I'd have liked to see Cus with a few more heavyweights under his charge.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ali still wins it but it would be a damn interesting fight as Patterson was the one Heavyweight who could nearly match a prime Ali for speed. Ali's reach advantage would be too tough for Patterson to overcome with enough consistancy to win though.

Poet