Can people change, can a person ever redeem themselves?

[EdWins]

Absolutely.

But I am of the "I can forgive but never forget" philosophy.

[BostonGuy]

Females choose to sell themselves..He committed crimes but he did not force anyone of them to live that life

Women who are forced into prostitution are often times manipulated, abused and treated awfully. It's not as clear cut as "they had a choice and they choice prostitution."


As to AS, he was a thug and committed crimes but had turned his life around. Humans make awful mistakes and choices and I think that people deserve second chances*.

*not in all situations, of course

[GhostofDempsey]

I believe there are different levels and some people can percieve the more subtle levels of ethics while for others? its all about morals. Morals are behavioral. Every religion has them... Whether they be prohibitive, or prescriptive. So, the bible is prohibitive and tells people what NOT to do... Don't sleep with a man's wife,etc... Buddhism is prescriptive and the eight fold path tells us what we SHOULD do, right thoughts, right speech, etc...

So at a base level some people need to behave properly. But real ethics is different and it is internal and not behavioral. I have a sandwich and there is a kid who needs to eat. Morally I might say "its my sandwich", but ethically? what drives me to do right is totally different. Some of us could not live with ourselves if we didn't give that sandwich to the child (I know I couldn't). And the reasons for that seem beyond simple behavior.

To me, it is this drive to sacrifice our own well being for the sake of greater principle that makes Humanity. And when I say "Humanity" I am talking about Dogs, people, and any creature capable of showing that spark...On the other hand, a child murdering, psychopath to me, is not human and has lost their ethical bearing.

As far as change, I think people can change but they really have to be inspired to do so. It has been proven that the inspiration often enough is empathy. Some of us have it some if us do not, some of us learn to experience it.

Nice post. As humans, most of us evolve emotionally, intellectually, spiritually and what have you, and over the natural course of life we mature. But if we never escape our surroundings, we often remain captive or rooted in a toxic environment.

In my teens and early twenties I was out of control. Did a lot of things that could have landed me in prison, I was drawn to a particular element. People who know me today, would never in a million years guess what sort of life I left behind and where I came up from. For me, leaving that environment was essential and the best thing I ever did. I'm not sure how I would have grown or evolved had I not left.

[WarVeteranO01]

Thanks. I'm guessing your time as a corrections officer you may have seen some inmates who genuinely turned over a new leaf? Or the ones who got religion while on the inside, but maybe lost it soon after being released? There is an old expression that there are no atheists in foxholes, I think a similar phenomenon takes place inside the walls of a prison where even the most hardened bad asses and criminals are somehow humbled, and many turn to religion for some form of salvation.

I have seen some genuinely bad people do a complete 180. Most of that was behavioral, and a lot of psychologists would argue that the only thing that changes is our behaviors, and not who we really are deep inside. That part I wonder about. It reminds of the scene in Carlito's Way when he says in prison, you don't get reformed, you just run out of wind.

1 thing they taught us right off the bat was we were not there to punish inmates, they've already received their punishment. Prison is crazy thought man but I learned a lot about people. The Feds is different than state prison(s) as far as Officer and inmate interaction. Ive shot the **** with murderers, bank robbers, drug lords, Mafiosos (Italian, Aryan, Mexican), you name the crime & Ive likely conversed with someone thats done it.

For the most part I worked at a US Penitentiary (High/Max security) & most guys were not getting out (straight convicts) and those that did came right back. When I did work in the Mediums there were inmates with release dates and younger inmates (less institutionalized) but in a prison society showing humbleness or sorrow is a sign of weakness so most walked around with a chip on their shoulder. It was mostly the inmates that ended up having to request protective custody that end up having a change of heart. And yeah you get your bible thumpers in the joint but for the most part even they have to align themselves with their race or gang so when they get put in a situation where its the Christian way or risk getting an ice pick in the back, they pick the ladder of the 2.

Another thing you have to remember about inmates, I remember reading some staggering stat that like 80% of Federally incarcerated inmates were under the influence of drugs and or alcohol during the commission of their crime/arrest. And as with many alcoholics/drug addicts, TRUST is completely gone. So can they redeem themselves? I guess so, but they cannot be trusted, thats for damn sure.

[Eff Pandas]

Females choose to sell themselves..He committed crimes but he did not force anyone of them to live that life

So he just smacked around some hoes cuz thats what they wanted lol.

I don't think anyone is necessarily saying Adonis lead to them being whores, but if he was a pimp & doing pimp sh^t idk that means anything else with the girls themselves. The karma is of his own doing in the position he chose & the actions he choose to do while fulfilling that job.

Idk sh^t about his "redeeming story" or if he has one at all. I personally wasn't a fan of his over his fighting schedule the last several years vs bs opponents. In some sick way there is almost a karma in him fighting his 2nd real opponent in years & now he's all f#cked up as sadistic as that might sound.

But anyway as to the OP question of course people can change. People are changing daily usually if they are still young enough & out there seeking info & new sh^t. I do believe its a long process when you've done bad enough things & not unlike falling off the wagon when an addict it likely requires several attempts to find that better version of you. And I also do tend to think when someone has done enough f#cked up sh^t its unlikely they'll find that better version of themselves again odds-wise so while there might be a million success stories there are probably 100 million non-success stories with redeeming ones self.

[billeau2]

Nice post. As humans, most of us evolve emotionally, intellectually, spiritually and what have you, and over the natural course of life we mature. But if we never escape our surroundings, we often remain captive or rooted in a toxic environment.

In my teens and early twenties I was out of control. Did a lot of things that could have landed me in prison, I was drawn to a particular element. People who know me today, would never in a million years guess what sort of life I left behind and where I came up from. For me, leaving that environment was essential and the best thing I ever did. I'm not sure how I would have grown or evolved had I not left.

Indeed and this gets into the concept of ignorance. Ignorance is truly not knowing any better. My father was a Jew who went into the Marine corps during the Second World War. There were very few Jews in the Marines, and his fellow Marines, well...many of them were from rural areas where they had never seen a Jew! So one day as they are talking my dad was asked, in all sincerity, by a guy from some remote area of the USA, "Hey Davy, is it true that jews had horns on their forehead that had to be cut?"

This guy actually was told, and thought that Jews had horns...And the most interesting thing about this situation? He thought enough of my dad, a fellow Marine, not to recoil and shun my dad, but to try to dispel his ignorance, and understand something about what he was told. And that is how it went, where many men learned about things they were ignorant of...and my dad, who grew up in Brooklyn learned about things he didn't know about as well.

What that means is that apparently you, and some others who so choose, are willing to change when knowledge presents itself. This guy for example, was willing to consider that "maybe what I know about Jews is wrong because of David Simon over there." I feel pity for those who would rather remain in the dark, but we see the results of that every day.

[GhostofDempsey]

1 thing they taught us right off the bat was we were not there to punish inmates, they've already received their punishment. Prison is crazy thought man but I learned a lot about people. The Feds is different than state prison(s) as far as Officer and inmate interaction. Ive shot the **** with murderers, bank robbers, drug lords, Mafiosos (Italian, Aryan, Mexican), you name the crime & Ive likely conversed with someone thats done it.

For the most part I worked at a US Penitentiary (High/Max security) & most guys were not getting out (straight convicts) and those that did came right back. When I did work in the Mediums there were inmates with release dates and younger inmates (less institutionalized) but in a prison society showing humbleness or sorrow is a sign of weakness so most walked around with a chip on their shoulder. It was mostly the inmates that ended up having to request protective custody that end up having a change of heart. And yeah you get your bible thumpers in the joint but for the most part even they have to align themselves with their race or gang so when they get put in a situation where its the Christian way or risk getting an ice pick in the back, they pick the ladder of the 2.

Another thing you have to remember about inmates, I remember reading some staggering stat that like 80% of Federally incarcerated inmates were under the influence of drugs and or alcohol during the commission of their crime/arrest. And as with many alcoholics/drug addicts, TRUST is completely gone. So can they redeem themselves? I guess so, but they cannot be trusted, thats for damn sure.

Great insight, thanks for sharing that!

I knew a guy who was a hardcore drunk and coke addict. Bad dude all around. Violent sociopath. Thought nothing of beating or stabbing people just for being in his way. Used to beat his wife mercilessly. Even tried to kill his entire family once a coke-induced rage and his own brother had to shoot him to stop him. He did three years in prison for robbery. In his 30s and 40s he had a few massive heart attacks, most likely from the coke. After his last one, he did a complete turnaround. Stopped drinking, stopped drugs, and did all he could to make amends with family and friends. Now, in his 60s/70s, you would never know or believe what kind of maniac this guy was when he was younger. He is kind, funny, charismatic, gentle, generous, humble, believes in God--though not really religious. Loves his wife, kids, grandkids and they all love him and have forgiven him.

Sometimes I ask myself, did he really change at his core, or did he just run out of steam? Probably a little of each I'd guess.

[Bobby Deez]

What if a pedo saved 100 kids from being touched up by another pedo?

What if a pedo saved 100 kids from a burning building but fondled like 20 of them little mugs on the way out?