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Old 11-14-2019, 11:17 PM #51
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by them_apples View Post
Yes.

But you have to take into context when certain fights are taking place. Like "losing to Ali and Young" are 2 completely different things.

When Foreman Fought Ali he's coming off 2 brutal stoppages over high ranked fighters that both beat Ali, Ali is "considered" to be leaving his prime and most think he's going to get killed.

When Foreman fights young everyone is saying his gas tank is low, he's slow, if you survive the first 5 he's easy picking. Post Ali George, Although physically prime - mentally was finished - which ultimately lead to him retiring. He came back with possibly the best mental game ever that he likely learned from Ali, but by this his physical had left him. You can literally see the change of styles that Foreman exhibited between the 2 fights, he fought like old george in a young mans body after Ali.


So that being said, What Ali did to break George down was way more than just quick hands, he had to endure a lot of pain to do it, and had to really get into Foremans head, talk **** while hitting him every time George hit him. Heart is a huge factor in boxing, and prime Larry vs 1974 George is not the same as 1976 Foreman vs Prime Holmes.

Holmes isn't gonna pull the rope a dope and **** talk while fighting back through a barrage of disrespecting bad intentions bombs, no - he's gonna box and move because he knows what happened to Frazier and Norton. Foremans gonna walk through Larry's punches like he walked through Ali's (that is until Ali mentally broke him) and then Larry is gonna wilt. he's gonna go in a 5 to 1 under dog and the press is gonna say he hasn't a chance, and Foreman is gonna make a beline for him like he's some journeyman scrub. Thats the difference between 2 years.

Had Ali not beat Liston years prior, I don't think he could have pulled off the Foreman win. This is what gave him the psychological edge.
very interesting.

1) Liston was shot. Everyone knew that. Even then Ali JUST barely escaped him. Really, he was as bad a match-up for old Liston as Liston was for Patterson. Karma.

2) You're writing off Young. He was very good - almost great. He just came of age when you had to be stellar.

Young held it together. Larry would hold it together even better. He also would hit back harder than Ali. He lacked Ali's strength and speed, but his arsenal was more impressive. He didn't have as many holes, either.

Really, too many excuses are made for Foreman. Clancy, did say George was mentally broken. But he kinda revealed how easy it was to break George. Foreman always seemed to struggled with slippery opponents (peralta). It's likely even if he beats Holmes once, they'd meat again and Holmes would pull it out.

Shavers and Cooney weren't Foreman, but Holmes clearly showed his whiskers and ability to drag big punchers into deep waters. So while I concede he'll pay a greater price than Ali and Young, he too - eventually - gets his hand raised as they did.
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