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This is not meant to be a thread where we discuss whether or not God exists, for such a thing can not be known with any degree of certainty, for one would have to know the nature of "God" in order to know whether or not such a being existed, and we don't know that. This is more of an examination of why we have evolved to such a state as we are in and what role belief in God or not plays in where we go from here and how we behave. Why have we developed common ethics, which do vary from culture to culture; but still have some essential truths?
First off, I completely understand where you atheists and agnostics are coming from....and don't know how to categorize myself, even. I do believe there is a God; but I'll be the first to admit that it's very difficult believing in God sometimes. Quite often I look at people around me and can see the "ape", so to speak...and have seen him in myself as well on occassion; and it's depressing.
I don't like to think that we are nothing more than animals in pants, quite honestly, for, to me....that kind of sucks. Then I see how readily we are willing to attack those who are different from us or even think differently from us, and I see a bunch of chimps attacking an outside invader who doesn't belong to their click.
Like many who believe, I was brought up in the church, attending every Sunday until I was 24 Years old; so, it is not inconceivable to me that much of why I believe has to do with being told over and over again that it is so and any other way is wrong.
Sure enough, too, my time came when God "let me down" or confused me; and things stopped making sense. As a result, I studied this and I studied that and found out things I didn't like to admit, such as the inconsistancies in the Bible.
However, I also found some comforting thoughts, such as the beliefs of the Oglala Lakota, according to Black Elk, some of the teachings of the Dali Llama, etc. How can religions who were never influenced by Christianity or Judaism teach the same essential priciples? How could Budha and the Oglala and other Native American Nations as well as other peoples who never knew the first thing about Jesus or the Hebrew God be keyed in to the same essential principles that Jesus taught without ever having heard of the man? Common sense? Maybe.....but maybe, just maybe it was something else.
One thing I don't believe in, as a general rule, is coincidence.....and this "maybe", this little maybe helped me to broaden my perception just a little. Some of you would say I'm grasping at straws, and, quite honestly, you may be right.
I choose to believe in God simply because I don't like the alternative. Under the alternative, I see no reason to love my neighbor as myself, I see no reason to obey any of the laws of man, even....for what authority has any man over me other than brute force and why can I not challenge him? Who is any man to tell me what to do? Who is any man to rule over me? Who is any man to tell me what my limitations are? Why can I not rule if I am powerful enough? Why deal with such worthless emotions as pity, mercy, and compassion, and such self-defaming behaviors as humbleness, piety, and modesty if there is no God to tell me that I should?
To me, it is against survival of the fittest and any personal ambitions I might have in my deepest, darkest subconsciousness....if I am merely an evolved animal, after all.
Just a glimpse at my Id, fellas....and just a reason why I chose to believe in God, because I don't like the way any of that sounds, personally. And, I suppose, when you get down to it, the reason it doesn't sound good to me, personally, is because of what I was taught at church growing up.
So, the question to the community is this.....why follow the command of others? Why conform to society if there is no moral reason to...and where do these morals come from and why do we listen to them? In the animal kingdom, the weak die, the strong survive, and the strongest breed, thus securing the strength of the community. Why have we evolved down a different path from the other animals and how is it benefitting us when it seems completely contrary to nature? Those of you who have no belief in God, where do your morals come from and why are morals in our best interest if there is no "punishment" when we are dead for behaving immorally?
Just some thoughts on a Saturday morning......and wondering what you guys think on this topic.
First off, I completely understand where you atheists and agnostics are coming from....and don't know how to categorize myself, even. I do believe there is a God; but I'll be the first to admit that it's very difficult believing in God sometimes. Quite often I look at people around me and can see the "ape", so to speak...and have seen him in myself as well on occassion; and it's depressing.
I don't like to think that we are nothing more than animals in pants, quite honestly, for, to me....that kind of sucks. Then I see how readily we are willing to attack those who are different from us or even think differently from us, and I see a bunch of chimps attacking an outside invader who doesn't belong to their click.
Like many who believe, I was brought up in the church, attending every Sunday until I was 24 Years old; so, it is not inconceivable to me that much of why I believe has to do with being told over and over again that it is so and any other way is wrong.
Sure enough, too, my time came when God "let me down" or confused me; and things stopped making sense. As a result, I studied this and I studied that and found out things I didn't like to admit, such as the inconsistancies in the Bible.
However, I also found some comforting thoughts, such as the beliefs of the Oglala Lakota, according to Black Elk, some of the teachings of the Dali Llama, etc. How can religions who were never influenced by Christianity or Judaism teach the same essential priciples? How could Budha and the Oglala and other Native American Nations as well as other peoples who never knew the first thing about Jesus or the Hebrew God be keyed in to the same essential principles that Jesus taught without ever having heard of the man? Common sense? Maybe.....but maybe, just maybe it was something else.
One thing I don't believe in, as a general rule, is coincidence.....and this "maybe", this little maybe helped me to broaden my perception just a little. Some of you would say I'm grasping at straws, and, quite honestly, you may be right.
I choose to believe in God simply because I don't like the alternative. Under the alternative, I see no reason to love my neighbor as myself, I see no reason to obey any of the laws of man, even....for what authority has any man over me other than brute force and why can I not challenge him? Who is any man to tell me what to do? Who is any man to rule over me? Who is any man to tell me what my limitations are? Why can I not rule if I am powerful enough? Why deal with such worthless emotions as pity, mercy, and compassion, and such self-defaming behaviors as humbleness, piety, and modesty if there is no God to tell me that I should?
To me, it is against survival of the fittest and any personal ambitions I might have in my deepest, darkest subconsciousness....if I am merely an evolved animal, after all.
Just a glimpse at my Id, fellas....and just a reason why I chose to believe in God, because I don't like the way any of that sounds, personally. And, I suppose, when you get down to it, the reason it doesn't sound good to me, personally, is because of what I was taught at church growing up.
So, the question to the community is this.....why follow the command of others? Why conform to society if there is no moral reason to...and where do these morals come from and why do we listen to them? In the animal kingdom, the weak die, the strong survive, and the strongest breed, thus securing the strength of the community. Why have we evolved down a different path from the other animals and how is it benefitting us when it seems completely contrary to nature? Those of you who have no belief in God, where do your morals come from and why are morals in our best interest if there is no "punishment" when we are dead for behaving immorally?
Just some thoughts on a Saturday morning......and wondering what you guys think on this topic.
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