Charles "Sonny" Liston vs. Rocky Marciano

[Brassangel]

Many of us saw how this match (allegedly) turned out in the "NBA Playoffs + boxing" thread posted by resident Ali fanatic, butterfly1964. I am interested in the opinions of others, however, as to how this match may go.

Did Liston really ever face anyone with the heart and determination of Marciano? A man who could punch for 25 rounds without getting tired, Rocky Marciano might just be able to slip beneath those long, extended arms of the Bear and lay into him. This maneuver could cause Liston to buckle just enough to even consider quitting. Or would this go as butterfly has suggested with Liston stopping Marciano as he comes in, overwhelming the Rock with well-time counterbombs?

Place your votes and voice your opinions.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

In all honesty if anything this is a bad style matchup for Liston.
I said this early and I repeat it

I'd give Marciano the edge over Liston, Style wise its not as bad a matchup as people say it. Marciano had a mix of Swarmer and Slugger but people only give Marciano credit for his Swarmer style when in fact he put 100% of his power behind each punch, sounds a bit like a slugger. Thing about a Swarmer is there often in more of a crouch and is trying to wear his opponent down and then KO the other guy.

I couldn't really put slugger into terms into my mind so i turned to good old Wikipedia-
Brawler

If the out-fighter represents everything classy about boxing, the brawler (also known as the 'slugger', 'hard hitter' or 'one puncher') often stands for everything that's wrong with the sport. Sluggers tend to lack finesse in the ring, but make up for it in raw power, often able to knock almost any opponent out with a single punch. This ability makes them exciting to watch, and their fights unpredictable. Many brawlers tend to lack mobility in the ring and have difficulty pursuing fighters who are fast on their feet. They prefer the harder, slower punches (such as hooks and uppercuts) and tend to ignore combination punching. Their slowness and predictable punching patterns (single punches with obvious leads) often leaves them open for counterpunching.

Hmm the bold sounds like Marciano - but yet Sluggers oftne don't have the Stamina to go beyond at most 7 rounds without beginning to lose some edge- examples-George Foreman,Sonny Liston,and I believe Earnie Shavers as well.

So Marciano is hybrid between Slugger and Swarmer because he shows Many Slugger Attributes, and yet has the stance (somewhat) and Stamina of a Swarmer.

Any way getting back to what we were talking about, what they're doing is taking fighters from different periods in their careers and comparing them to Prime marciano, to be honest Prime to Prime I give Marciano a chance with anybody that ever fought, does that mean I think he could win against any fighter no. The reason I give Marciano the edge is because he had unmatched Heart, His stamina gave him the ability to go many many rounds throwing his best punches and taking punishment and still be fresh, and finally his punching power was great and in both hands. He had KO power in either hand.

I feel I've strayed from waht i was going to say- so I may end up posting again, I agree with many outcomes on that link (not all) but I don't agree with many of the things that lead up to the outcome.

My source for Slugger info
its under styles or something like that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing

That should basically sum it up.
Marciano has the advantage in strength, stamina, style, heart.

Rocky Marciano > Sonny Liston

Rocky Ko's Sonny 9

[rocco1252]

The biggest problem is going to be the weight difference, everyone's gripe is always about how he was a cruiserweight fighting Light Heavies old and out of prime. I can already see it coming, Marciano had a weak chin he went down against Walcott and Moore who were Light Heavies yada yada. He wasnt going to be able to get inside on the bigger man, too much power from Liston, Marciano had no defense, wouldnt be able to get inside of the Liston jab. Ahh what else? Marciano Cut to easy he would be busted up. Man the list goes on.

Point of the matter is I believe Marciano could win regardless of all the factors previously presented because Marciano would have had the heart and no fear of the intimidating Liston in which relied so much on. Once you got those you've already done half the battle. Marciano would have kept coming no matter what swarming someone who never was because he was so big and powerful. Liston had long arms but he wasnt a great inside fighter in my opinion, Marcino would get inside and rip him apart little by little. Marciano KO 10 over Liston

[Heckler]

Marciano had a tendancy to get wild and leave himself open.. this could be disastrous against a huge puncher like Sonny that could make Marciano darely for such mistakes. Marciano will be walking straight towards a man who is bigger, stronger, taller and thus having a leverage advantage on the inside. Liston had huge reach and a sledgehammer jab that could make things most difficult for Marciano when trying to work his way inside.

Rocky had huge stamina and a heart to match. He wouldn't be easy to hit, although i think the notion that he would wade straight under Listons straight punches without incurring any damage is ridiculous. This would be a slugfest, who would win? Im so unsure im not going to vote.

[Heckler]

In all honesty if anything this is a bad style matchup for Liston.
I said this early and I repeat it



That should basically sum it up.
Marciano has the advantage in strength, stamina, style, heart.

Rocky Marciano > Sonny Liston


Rocky Ko's Sonny 9

If only things were that simplistic. Im not sure if Marciano has the advantage in strength, infact i'd give the nod to Sonny on this one. Punching power? not sure.

[sleazyfellow]

neither faced an opponent like the other in their respective times, but i beleive liston would win, an up and coming liston (b4 the title) had the skills and power to put rocky on his ass for sure b4 5 rounds was over

[butterfly1964]

neither faced an opponent like the other in their respective times, but i beleive liston would win, an up and coming liston (b4 the title) had the skills and power to put rocky on his ass for sure b4 5 rounds was over

Goooooood! It's refreshing to see that some people still know their boxing. Good Karma for you, plus 10mil!

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Goooooood! It's refreshing to see that some people still know their boxing. Good Karma for you, plus 10mil!

butterfly many of us know our boxing, we also all know that Sonny Liston is overrated. I understand its not as simple as Rocky Marciano just winning. Now I will admit one thing Sonny Liston did have skill coming up, he was powerful,strong,precise,and able to get those good shots in.

But the way I see it things Liston has working against him are:
Marciano has more stamina then Liston, and Marciano will be able to take it into later rounds without being nervous.

Marciano's defense was deceptive.

Marciano gets the nod for punching power IMO but I suppose its decently close.

Marciano not only fought as a slugger he fought as a swarmer.

Although- Things Marciano has working against him:
Liston was good at picking and getting the good shots in.

Liston was a IMO very precise puncher.

Liston had better handspeed, and footwork.

Liston had a huge reach.

The way I see it, Liston will during the fight Liston will get good hard shots on Marciano, trying to keep him at bay. Liston will most likely succeed in the beginning because Marciano tended to be a slow starter feeling out his opponents. Later Marciano will start getting inside and landing huge body shots, and probably a few headshots. Later Liston will begin to get tired and marciano will still be fresh, and thats when Marciano will make his move and KO Liston. Marciano KO's Liston in 8

I'd like to say one thing though I doubht severely that Liston will quit on his stool.

[butterfly1964]

butterfly many of us know our boxing, we also all know that Sonny Liston is overrated. I understand its not as simple as Rocky Marciano just winning. Now I will admit one thing Sonny Liston did have skill coming up, he was powerful,strong,precise,and able to get those good shots in.

But the way I see it things Liston has working against him are:
Marciano has more stamina then Liston, and Marciano will be able to take it into later rounds without being nervous.

Marciano's defense was deceptive.

Marciano gets the nod for punching power IMO but I suppose its decently close.

Marciano not only fought as a slugger he fought as a swarmer.

Although- Things Marciano has working against him:
Liston was good at picking and getting the good shots in.

Liston was a IMO very precise puncher.

Liston had better handspeed, and footwork.

Liston had a huge reach.

The way I see it, Liston will during the fight Liston will get good hard shots on Marciano, trying to keep him at bay. Liston will most likely succeed in the beginning because Marciano tended to be a slow starter feeling out his opponents. Later Marciano will start getting inside and landing huge body shots, and probably a few headshots. Later Liston will begin to get tired and marciano will still be fresh, and thats when Marciano will make his move and KO Liston. Marciano KO's Liston in 8

I'd like to say one thing though I doubht severely that Liston will quit on his stool.

If Marciano got past three rounds with Liston then that could happen, but I doubt that Marciano would go into the later rounds anyway.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

If Marciano got past three rounds with Liston then that could happen, but I doubt that Marciano would go into the later rounds anyway.

You under estimate Marciano, if it was Foreman then yes I would say getting past 3 would be a great accomplishment, but It's Liston and even though he's tough I can see him getting past 3.

Only thing Marciano would really have a problem with more so then Liston's power is his Precise Punching, but then again (not to compare these two fighters) Jersey Joe was a pretty precise puncher too. I'm not comparing them just pointing out that Marciano face precise punchers.