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Old 08-27-2009, 12:56 PM #6
King Flawless King Flawless is offline
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Hagler dominated his era of middleweights and also fought Leonard, Hearns and Duran. He wasn't a big middleweight by any means at 5'9, Leonard and Duran were eye-to-eye with him and Hearns towered over him.
Don't make excuses for Hagler. So what he was 5'9. He started at MW, yet couldn't KO much smaller Duran. Lost to Leonard at MW, while he was active and the bigger guy.

Marquez is a 36 year old former featherweight. He hasn't proven anything above lightweight, unlike Duran, Leonard and Hearns did.
What did Duran prove at 154, before he was KO'd by Herans??? Yet this is Herans best win. Losing to Benitez and Laing and beating a green Moore in his 12th fight IS proving yourself??

One of his losses was a blatant robbery. He was only 21 years old at the time of these fights, fighting in his opponents' hometowns. Later on he avenged both losses in devastating fashion.
Didn't Floyd win a world title at 21??? Yet Hagler couldn't KO a bum at age of 21.
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Greatness right there

Hagler was even younger when he drew with Sugar Ray Seales (in Seales's hometown), the Olympic Gold medalist and highly regarded prospect. Hagler had previously beaten him, and went onto beat Seales again.

Hagler drew in his first title challenge against Vito Antuofermo. The decision should have gone to Hagler.
He beat an Olympic gold medalist. That is nothing. Winning a gold medal in amateurs is nothing compared to a real pro fight. It was obvious his style was not suited to professional ranks. Hagler shouldn't been drawing with nobodies, he is ranked a top 20 ATG, which is a obvious mistake

There was no controversy about Hagler. He came up the hard way, fighting for small purses in his opponents' hometowns, establishing himself as a contender by beating all the tough Philadelphia middleweights as well as the number 1 middleweight contender at the time. He went to England and took the title away from Alan Minter, defending it against all comers.
He changed his name. Leonard said no to him in front of his face, Racist attacks in England. I just listed 3 controversies surrounding Hagler.

A lot of ATG's have been KO'd more than 4 times. One of these stoppage losses was due to an injury when he was 40+ years old, two of them above his best weight at middleweight, one of them in the 14th round when Hearns had run out of stamina.

Getting KO'd by another great fighter is understandable. But getting KO'd nobodies and getting outboxed them is shameful.

Wins over welterweight champ Pipino Cuevas as well as Bruce Curry, Angel Espada, Eddie Gazo, Saensak Muangsurin, Randy Shields, Clyde Gray, Harold Weston

Wins over light middleweight champ Wilfred Benitez and Roberto Duran as well as Luigi Minchillo, Mark Medal, Fred Hutchings

Wins over middleweight contenders Juan Roldan, Doug DeWitt, James Shuler, James Kinchen, Michael Olajide, Mike Colbert, Marcos Geraldo

Wins over light heavyweight champ Virgil Hill and Dennis Andries

Some good wins there. No GREAT wins IMO. There are many contenders in boxing these days and those days.

No skill?

Esteban DeJesus a bum? That's the same as calling Jose Luis Castillo a bum.

Duran was considered past it when he was over 30 years old and had fought more than 70-80 times as a professional.

Duran had lost once in 70 fights while in his prime. Obviously the losses start piling up when you are nearly/over 40 years of age and fight at 160+ lbs. He fought until he was fifty.

He had wins over world champions from featherweight up to middleweight.

Why do post videos??? Just amazing how Duran can be considered as great defensive fighter. Ask Hearns how great his defense is. Duran defense is good as Hatton. He was extremely flat footed and didn't move his head when needed

Castillo resume is better than Esteban DeJesus. That is a fact

Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Your criticisms of Leonard are too ridiculous to respond to. Apparently Leonard is a fraud for fighting an old Hagler and robbing him of the decision, while Hagler is a bum for losing to the smaller Ray Leonard.
Leonard is a fraud for waiting Hagler to get old. Hagler also embarrassed himself not being able to KO a natural WW.
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