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I admit it. boxing SUCKS compared to mma.

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  • Anthony342
    replied
    Originally posted by NYG View Post
    Agreed. People want to see rock em sock em robots, nobody can appreciate technical boxing fights anymore and that's why they rather watch the UFC. People don't like things their brains can't understand.
    The ground game in MMA is plenty technical when you have two top grapplers in there and ironically, that's something you don't seem to understand. No, people want to see more than just punches thrown. They want to see other techniques. They want to see kicks, knees, elbows and submissions.

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  • Grange_27
    replied
    Im sure it is im not denying that. I just find the whole grappling thing deeply boring to watch. Golf is also deeply technical but i have no interest in watching that either

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  • TMLT87
    replied
    Originally posted by Grange_27 View Post
    OK so on that yes agree I have a friend who is a MMA fan and a boxing casual. So he watches the big boxing fights with us in a group in the pub. Knows the basics but misses subtle nuances.
    This is probably the briefest vid I can find explaining the absolute basics positions of the ground game.



    Bear in mind theres a hierarchy of positions, both for the fighter on the top and the fighter on his back, in terms of amount of control over the opponent plus attacking options for both strikes and submissions. Because of that hierarchy you need "passes" (or transitions) ie techniques to move from one position to another effectively. Every single position has tons of transitions, submission options etc for both opponents. Heres a rapid fire example of how intricate it can get, and remember MMA adds ground striking to this too...





    Same thing from the guy on bottoms perspective...





    And this is just the ground game for ****s sake. Heres the current UFC MW champ...




    And heres arguably the GOAT HW showing how to beautifully transition from striking range to standing grappling range, he was one of the best at it.




    This is why it cracks me up when people tune into a random UFC already looking to **** on it and then come up with the "sloppy" "bar room brawlers" "rolling around" etc stuff because it doesnt look like pure queensberry rules. The sport is technically deep as ****.

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  • Grange_27
    replied
    Originally posted by TMLT87 View Post
    Imagine if you didnt get the technical nuances of boxing, hadnt conditioned yourself over time to instinctively recognize the crispness of the shots, good counters, good timing, good positioning, good distance control, using the jab effectively etc etc. It seems like second nature but the average person will just see two blokes trying to punch each other, they wont understand the levels at all. Its the same with MMA, with football, with any sport.

    I cant really speak on the casual US audience. Most MMA fans I know tend to be pretty knowledgeable though, and I think MMA fans are more the types to watch multiple combat sports because of the "mixed" nature of MMA itself and the relative crossover.

    Its an international audience these days too tbf.
    OK so on that yes agree I have a friend who is a MMA fan and a boxing casual. So he watches the big boxing fights with us in a group in the pub. Knows the basics but misses subtle nuances.

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  • TMLT87
    replied
    Originally posted by Grange_27 View Post
    I have no interest in it to be honest. It looks like rolling around on the floor because that what it is. Im not saying its easy im saying its massively boring to watch in my opinion. So i dont.

    On the plus side UFC has got the casual meathead audience nailed down now in the US and i bet they don't understand it either.
    Imagine if you didnt get the technical nuances of boxing, hadnt conditioned yourself over time to instinctively recognize the crispness of the shots, good counters, good timing, good positioning, good distance control, using the jab effectively etc etc. It seems like second nature but the average person will just see two blokes trying to punch each other, they wont understand the levels at all. Its the same with MMA, with football, with any sport.

    I cant really speak on the casual US audience. Most MMA fans I know tend to be pretty knowledgeable though, and I think MMA fans are more the types to watch multiple combat sports because of the "mixed" nature of MMA itself and the relative crossover.

    Its an international audience these days too tbf.

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  • Grange_27
    replied
    Originally posted by TMLT87 View Post
    I didnt say that. I said there are tons of MMA fighters who have mastered one art as much as a boxer has mastered theres, and then they build on top of it.

    And again, which "masters" of other combat sports could be dropped into the octagon tomorrow and beat the top guys of their size?




    Do you actually understand it on a technical level though? just randomly tuning into it (with probable negative confirmation bias too) isnt automatically going to do that. Which is why black belt level BJJ and/or division 1 wrestling just looks like "rolling around on the floor".
    I have no interest in it to be honest. It looks like rolling around on the floor because that what it is. Im not saying its easy im saying its massively boring to watch in my opinion. So i dont.

    On the plus side UFC has got the casual meathead audience nailed down now in the US and i bet they don't understand it either.

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  • TMLT87
    replied
    Originally posted by Grange_27 View Post
    However you seem to think that everything an MMA fighter trains in they master? Come on now.
    I didnt say that. I said there are tons of MMA fighters who have mastered one art as much as a boxer has mastered theres, and then they build on top of it.

    And again, which "masters" of other combat sports could be dropped into the octagon tomorrow and beat the top guys of their size?


    Originally posted by Grange_27 View Post
    As I said each to thier own. If you prefer rolling around on the floor and sloppy striking MMA all the way. I personally don't I have watched it and its ok but nothing id stay up for. You enjoy it , good for you.
    Do you actually understand it on a technical level though? just randomly tuning into it (with probable negative confirmation bias too) isnt automatically going to do that. Which is why black belt level BJJ and/or division 1 wrestling just looks like "rolling around on the floor".

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  • Grange_27
    replied
    Right again. McGregor is an awful boxer. Awful, zero technique and no power. Mayweather kept him up for fun until it was time to close the show. Now to me thats understandable McGregor hasn't trained as a boxer its different footwork in MMA. However you seem to think that everything an MMA fighter trains in they master? Come on now.

    As I said each to thier own. If you prefer rolling around on the floor and sloppy striking MMA all the way. I personally don't I have watched it and its ok but nothing id stay up for. You enjoy it , good for you.

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  • TMLT87
    replied
    Originally posted by Grange_27 View Post
    OK so lets look at it like this. Boxing is football(soccer for those not UK based) and MMA is Rugby.

    In football you use one skill kicking and perfect it. In rugby you use lots of different skills including kicking. Nobody in thier right mind would suggest a pro Rugby player who was good at kicking could crossover to football. So saying how many skills MMA fighters are average at frankly doesnt interest me at all. Some people like Rugby I can take it or leave it. Football all the way.
    I get the basic idea of what you're trying to say - the narrower focus of football vs the wider range of stuff in rugby etc. But those two are as far apart from each other as two team ball sports could possibly be, there is absolutely zero technical crossover at all. Rugby players have more transferable skills for MMA than they do football ffs. Whereas MMA fighters commonly train with boxing coaches and spar with boxers because its applicable to them. Kicking a rugby ball wont make you very good at football but punching someone in the face is a relatively universal skill.

    And the whole "masters of none" argument against MMA is overplayed imo. For a start, lets be honest, when you tune into a typical boxing card most of the fighters you see on there arent "masters" of their art either. Boxing cards are often paper thin and if its some ****e like a Frank Warren card it'll be full of regional no hoper bums who are only there to give some kid a sparring session before going down and helping build up his record. You will genuinely see multiple guys on most boxing cards who are worse actual boxers than a lot of UFC level MMA fighters. Just look at how Arum keeps putting that Collard guy on his cards now, hes a UFC washout who got soundly outboxed by Max Holloway.

    And theres been olympic medallists, K1 GP winners, ADCC champions in MMA along with tons of black belts in BJJ, former Division 1 level wrestlers, a few karate and judo black belts, high level sambo guys etc etc. So its not uncommon at all to see guys who actually have reached a high level in an individual art, its also not uncommon to see them being beaten at their own game in MMA which shows that all this "average" stuff is overstated.

    At the end of the day, if their skills are "average" which fighters outside of MMA could actually beat the MMA elites under rules that allows both sides to use the entirety of their skillset? (which is exactly what MMA rules do anyway, its the whole reason the sport even came into existence in the first place=

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  • PRINCEKOOL
    replied
    Originally posted by paulf View Post
    Boxing doesn't choose to follow a different model, the market (fans/viewers) are the ones who decide, and they have yet to put a single organization in the driver's seat of the sport. Anyone that's tried hasn't got the buy in from the public to succeed; probably because they usually product a **** product.

    MMA has a (defacto) major league, UFC. Football has the NFL. Baseball has MLB. These weren't legally appointed. Each organization started from the ground up and overtook the competition, eventually establishing itself as the #1 show in town.

    That's never happened in boxing.

    Boxing's closest cousin is wrestling; up until the 70s they both had the same model, with lots of different regional and national promoters. While the Mcmahon's eventually rolled up wrestling, Don King was never able to completely do the same with boxing. it remains the wild west until an organization puts forth a product good enough for the public to ordain it the major league of boxing.

    I wouldn't hold my breath.
    Decent post.

    Well done.

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