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Charles Murray, A Great Intellect Of Our Time

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Citizen Koba View Post

    Doesn't matter whether you call it race or ethnicity - there's no demonstrable biological differences between groups which would lead to inherent differences in intelligence which couldn't be explained by social or economic or environmental factors.

    One more chance huh? You sound like 1Bad... talk to me or don't, makes zero difference to me. Nor do the opinions of whichever posters you're refering to. Most of em offer no more meaningful or constructive discourse than you're doing right now. Rhetorical games ain't a substitute for actual facts or research and you're utterly failing to provide any merely shifting the goalposts.

    Why is there no Afrian Nation that is a first world Nation? I don't know... I can have a shot at explaining the historical background but that ain't a field I'm particularly knowledgable in. However it'll have to wait till I got my youngest to bed.
    LOL.

    you dont know.

    that's all you had to say.

    instead you went in a convoluted tirade about the semantics of the word human race when you know damn well when people refer to race or racism they are referring to different ethnic groups.

    once again,

    thanks for nothing poser.


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    • #32
      Originally posted by The Old LefHook View Post
      Koba does not know anything. She is not a scientist but a liar. Anyone can look up stuff on Wikipeja.

      I just stopped her in her tracks with the fact that we share the same amount of DNA with chimps as we do with blacks. She is the one who proclaimed so proudly that blacks and whites share 99% of their DNA. Watch her struggle in the deep water of fact. Can't wait to hear what drivel she's got next for me.
      Sure. We share 99ish% of our DNA with chimps our closest non-human relative, in fact we share 99.9% with other humans, virtually irrespective of 'race' and you may indeed share more of your DNA with a person of African descent or of Indian descent that another 'white' person if you happen to be of European descent - or pinkish hue - it's probabilistic, a continuum as I said before. The clear cut boundaries between races (or indeed ethnicities) that folk seem to be so sure of simply don't exist.

      So yeah, not only are your 'facts' wrong you also clearly failed to understand their import or meaning. But then it seems your thinking is so shaped by the concept of race you're unable to conceive that it isn't actually real. I understand - such cognitive leaps require the kinda self doubt and ability to question ones own core beliefs that ain't available to everyone.
      travestyny travestyny likes this.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Offensive Wizardry View Post

        LOL.

        you dont know.

        that's all you had to say.

        instead you went in a convoluted tirade about the semantics of the word human race when you know damn well when people refer to race or racism they are referring to different ethnic groups.

        once again,

        thanks for nothing poser.

        Race or ethnicity makes little difference to the point I'm making. It's a little more complex with the term ethnicity because it's also extremely vaguely defined and also interweaves cultural as well as genetic factors but either way Murray fails to prove that it's race or ethnicity rather than social, economic or environmental factors that lead to differences in IQ test results.

        With regards to the history of Africa the fact that the continent relatively less advanced militarily and econmically at a particular point in time - the colonial era of European expansion in particular - and that european exploitation of their economic and social resources has harmed their subsequent development in no way proves that Africans as a group or individuals are somehow less intelligent than other human beings when all other factors are levelled - which is the point I assume you are trying to make.
        travestyny travestyny likes this.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Citizen Koba View Post

          Race or ethnicity makes little difference to the point I'm making. It's a little more complex with the trerm ethnicity because it's also extremely vaguely defined and also interweaves cultural as well as genetic factors but either way Murray fails to prove that it's race or ethnicity rather than social, economic or environmental factors that lead to differences in IQ test results.

          With regards to the history of Africa the fact that the continent relatively less advanced militarily and econmically at a particular point in time - the colonial era of European expansion in particular - and that european exploitation of their economic and social resources has harmed their subsequent development in no way proves that Africans as a group or individuals are somehow less intelligent than other human beings when all other factors are levelled - which is the point I assume you are trying to make.
          so they werent smart enough to prevent invasions and their exploitation?

          i think we know race and ethnicity makes a big difference is what charles murray and many people are trying to tell people like you but due to your whatever guilt or sanctimonious need to be "politically correct" you refuse to see the facts on the ground.

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          • #35
            Ah. Well. Guess I'm out. Folk I'm discussing with basically choose to believe that African Americans - or possibly all those of African descent are intrinsically less intelligent irrespective of environmental or other non-biological factors. I don't claim to know why because they're offering little or no substantive evidence to back up their assertions but I do know deeply held beliefs when I see em and I know further discussion is pointless.

            Besides it's bringing my mood down and I got far better ways to spend my time.

            travestyny travestyny likes this.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Citizen Koba View Post
              Ah. Well. Guess I'm out. Folk I'm discussing with basically choose to believe that African Americans - or possibly all those of African descent are intrinsically less intelligent irrespective of environmental or other non-biological factors. I don't claim to know why because they're offering little or no substantive evidence to back up their assertions but I do know deeply held beliefs when I see em and I know further discussion is pointless.

              Besides it's bringing my mood down and I got far better ways to spend my time.
              why cant they develop a first world nation? the atlantic slave trade happened hundreds of years ago.

              look at the majority ados population in america.

              are they doing well or not?

              the facts are on the ground yet you want to play convoluted semantic word play that has no bearing on the discussion at hand.

              dont you believe in personal accountability?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Offensive Wizardry View Post

                so they werent smart enough to prevent invasions and their exploitation?

                i think we know race and ethnicity makes a big difference is what charles murray and many people are trying to tell people like you but due to your whatever guilt or sanctimonious need to be "politically correct" you refuse to see the facts on the ground.
                It's a fallacious argument man. The Egyptians were the most powerful nation on the planet for possibly 1500 years - does that mean Africans used to be the most intelligent people on the planet but no longer are? What about the Japanese and East Asians? They score more highly by far than Americans on IQ tests but yet had their asses thouroughly fucked in the war. Dozens of historical factors contributed to the Europeans being in a postion to colonise Africa duroing a particular period, including cultural and scientific innovations from other cultures (such as Islamic science and Chinese technology) as well as the availability of particular resources, climate and so on and such things must be viewed through the lens of history - our dominance has not been there forever and we'd be hubristic indeed to believe it'll continue forever.

                In Britian currently 'white' males are on average the poorest performing academic group when you remove other factors (such as the inequality in wealth distribution and educational provison between different regions of the country) - does that prove that 'white' british people are intrinsically less intelligent than other so called 'races'?

                And you may see the world that way but I see it a different way. Eliminate the concept of 'race' or ethnicity' from your thinking and you simply come to a different set of conclusions about why the world works the way it does. I see explanations of inequality and inequity based on social, environmental and econmic factors you choose to see more self-serving explanations. It is what it is. To prove it one way or another we'd have to conduct the sort of social experiments that would be ethically questionable.

                travestyny travestyny likes this.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Offensive Wizardry View Post

                  why cant they develop a first world nation? the atlantic slave trade happened hundreds of years ago.
                  They're doing just fine in their mud huts.............Rockin'

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Citizen Koba View Post

                    Race or ethnicity makes little difference to the point I'm making. It's a little more complex with the term ethnicity because it's also extremely vaguely defined and also interweaves cultural as well as genetic factors but either way Murray fails to prove that it's race or ethnicity rather than social, economic or environmental factors that lead to differences in IQ test results.

                    With regards to the history of Africa the fact that the continent relatively less advanced militarily and econmically at a particular point in time - the colonial era of European expansion in particular - and that european exploitation of their economic and social resources has harmed their subsequent development in no way proves that Africans as a group or individuals are somehow less intelligent than other human beings when all other factors are levelled - which is the point I assume you are trying to make.
                    You've got a big libby rationalization for everything. Get real. Africa didn't do anything important because its citizens were thousands of years behind whites, Asians and even Latins. Period. I didn't make it so, gal, but it is so. They can dance, though, and run and jump with a ball; they can run, on the field or from the police like nobody, by buggery. I live with seven blacks, so there is not a prejudiced bone in my body, before you start that.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Citizen Koba View Post

                      It's a fallacious argument man. The Egyptians were the most powerful nation on the planet for possibly 1500 years - does that mean Africans used to be the most intelligent people on the planet but no longer are? What about the Japanese and East Asians? They score more highly by far than Americans on IQ tests but yet had their asses thouroughly fucked in the war. Dozens of historical factors contributed to the Europeans being in a postion to colonise Africa duroing a particular period, including cultural and scientific innovations from other cultures (such as Islamic science and Chinese technology) as well as the availability of particular resources, climate and so on and such things must be viewed through the lens of history - our dominance has not been there forever and we'd be hubristic indeed to believe it'll continue forever.

                      In Britian currently 'white' males are on average the poorest performing academic group when you remove other factors (such as the inequality in wealth distribution and educational provison between different regions of the country) - does that prove that 'white' british people are intrinsically less intelligent than other so called 'races'?

                      And you may see the world that way but I see it a different way. Eliminate the concept of 'race' or ethnicity' from your thinking and you simply come to a different set of conclusions about why the world works the way it does. I see explanations of inequality and inequity based on social, environmental and econmic factors you choose to see more self-serving explanations. It is what it is. To prove it one way or another we'd have to conduct the sort of social experiments that would be ethically questionable.
                      smh....

                      egypt was never the most powerful. they were lucky because of their location and time period. japanese got nuked. twice then proceeded to build the best first world asian nation on planet earth. east asians/asians in general are some of the highest earning minority groups in america. "british whites" have been in power in europe for thousands of years and they have one of the most powerful nations on planet earth. the chinese i have a lot of problems with them but the proof is in the pudding, they have become a superpower nation and their citizens are very good in business.

                      you will never eliminate the concept of race or racism because race/racism is an inherent embedded human trait that was necessary for survival during the first stages of humanity and they continue to be to this very present day where you see from school lunchrooms to the penitentiary people tend to stick with their own kind for social survival as well as physical survival.

                      the fact that i have to explain this to you epitomizes the current state of the american education system where political correctness has overrun and defeated basic common sense and logic where indoctrination has usurped education.



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