How many times did the SOB plan on getting up.

[Willie Pep 229]

Dempsey-Firpo, September 1923 The Polo Grounds

Luis Angel Firpo was knocked down nine times in four minutes. When it was over Firpo had a complaint.

Did he complain that Dempsey had been assisted/helped back into the ring, as some ringside reporters claimed? No, he didn't complain about that.

Did he complain that Dempsey didn't give him 'fair room' after the knock downs, as many ringside reporters claimed? No! Not that either.

What then did he complain about? --- He complained he got a short count.

I have no clue if it's true or not, the film is too old, too jerky, an not timed for modern projection, but god it's got to make you ask, how many times did this tough hombre intend to get up?



This video is cued to the final knockdown; the refree only waves off an eight count, but it's hard to tell if he is pcking up a count, or starting fresh.

[HOUDINI563]

Firpo was down for much more than a ten count. If fact he never actually got up. Dempsey lifted him from the canvas and helped him to his corner.

The ref picked up the count at 2 and then proceeded to count to TEN. IMO

It’s not well known but Firpo came to the pre fight physical the morning of the fight with a dislocated left elbow. The doctor wanted to call the fight but Firpo pleaded for the bout to go on. To prove he was good to fight Firpo slammed his left fist down upon the metal table he was sitting upon. Sweat streamed from his forehead but that was the only evidence he was in agony.

The doctor pulled his elbow back into its socket, wrapped the arm and the bout went on as planned. Firpo sailed into Dempsey one of boxing’s most murderous punchers in agony every time he moved his left arm. The guy was one brave fighter utterly without fear.

Another point I often make is how the film of the bout appears to be edited. You can barely see that initial right hand by Firpo seconds into round 1. Numerous other stops and starts are noticeable.

I read that Pathe France filmed the bout and emailed them to see what they may have in their vault. The response was nothing was available.

Some real short punching by Dempsey here and the knockdown prior to the KO is just amazing. Right to the body left hook to the jaw and the blows are so short. Left hook thrown within the plane of the shoulders. Perfect.

[The Old LefHook]

I didn't know that about Firpa's elbow.

[Willie Pep 229]

Firpo was down for much more than a ten count. If fact he never actually got up. Dempsey lifted him from the canvas and helped him to his corner.

The ref picked up the count at 2 and then proceeded to count to TEN. IMO

It’s not well known but Firpo came to the pre fight physical the morning of the fight with a dislocated left elbow. The doctor wanted to call the fight but Firpo pleaded for the bout to go on. To prove he was good to fight Firpo slammed his left fist down upon the metal table he was sitting upon. Sweat streamed from his forehead but that was the only evidence he was in agony.

The doctor pulled his elbow back into its socket, wrapped the arm and the bout went on as planned. Firpo sailed into Dempsey one of boxing’s most murderous punchers in agony every time he moved his left arm. The guy was one brave fighter utterly without fear.

Another point I often make is how the film of the bout appears to be edited. You can barely see that initial right hand by Firpo seconds into round 1. Numerous other stops and starts are noticeable.

I read that Pathe France filmed the bout and emailed them to see what they may have in their vault. The response was nothing was available.

Some real short punching by Dempsey here and the knockdown prior to the KO is just amazing. Right to the body left hook to the jaw and the blows are so short. Left hook thrown within the plane of the shoulders. Perfect.

Interesting story -- tough guy -- the film didn't get much nationwide exposure, (the prohibition,) the feds were waiting for Rickard this time to try to take it across State lines -- but the story I heard about the cutting was that in the New York theaters the following week Doc Kearns was running around trying to get theaters to let him cut out the two Dempsey KDs, especially the one with 'Dempsey out of the ring'

[HOUDINI563]

Cutting the sequence where Dempsey is catapulted out of the ring makes no sense. Everyone was aware of it.

It would make sense to remove frames during specific sequences such as that first right hand by Firpo to lesson the visual effect.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Firpo Rt was a push, not a punch that he coulda been DQed for.

Of course reporters gonna push Dempsey off them and their typewriters, not his corner rushing over help him.

[Willie Pep 229]

Cutting the sequence where Dempsey is catapulted out of the ring makes no sense. Everyone was aware of it.

It would make sense to remove frames during specific sequences such as that first right hand by Firpo to lesson the visual effect.

I understand your point for today, but I am certain it was the 'out of the ring' event that Kearns wanted out.

Remember only a mere 80,000 people saw it happen, the film presentation changes that number to a biblical multitude. If Kearns had been successful the populace would have had to conjure up their own image of it; it likely would have have faded quickly into folk lore. Out of sight, out of mind is what I believe Kearns was looking for.

Of course Kearns was wrong, it's excitement would only help to create a bigger gate next time out. But at some level, Kearns and Dempsey (and most of America) were just learning to live in the 20th Century.

Mass media was a new event and they were still trying to figure it out. -- In the early 20's Baseball refused to go on the radio, foolishly thinking it would keep the crowds at home. Of course they didn't understand it would instead turn entire cities into fan bases.

Kearns would have lost anyway; two years later George Bellows would screw over Kearns by creating the iconic image of prize fighting (for the next 40 years; until the camera caught Ali growling over Liston.)

[Willie Pep 229]

- -Firpo Rt was a push, not a punch that he coulda been DQed for.

Of course reporters gonna push Dempsey off them and their typewriters, not his corner rushing over help him.

True, but he does catch Dempsey with a good right hand that seems to straighten Dempsey up before he pushes him out of the ring. But definitely a push.

[HOUDINI563]

The entire bout was written about in every newspaper. Cutting out the main point of watching the film would not make any sense.

[OctoberRed]

True, but he does catch Dempsey with a good right hand that seems to straighten Dempsey up before he pushes him out of the ring. But definitely a push.

Agreed...