Full body dumbell exercises

[PunchDrunk]

Ross posted a new article recently going indepth into Weight lifting. He says hes been misquoted alot and he wanted to clear up some things.

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles...htraining.html

Great article. This should be mandatory reading before being allowed to post in this training section!!

[PunchDrunk]

Wanker.

I know more than the people on here who come onto the boxing site and act like looking the part means being the part. I know enough to know that by lifting weights one loses flexibility and also speed occasionally. I also have first hand experience with weights, since I tested their effect over the course of like 6 months. Luckily I didnt go on too much further otherwise I wouldnt have been able to reverse the muscle gains.

Just stick to boxing related strength and technique exercises, thats what I say.

Well, I seem to remember you and I having had less than constructive discussions in the past. Try surprising me by reading it with an open mind, instead of just answering with a bunch of insults.

BEing prettier than a warthog doesn't make you Miss World. Knowing more than someone who's clearly ignorant (ie. the people you refer to), doesn't make you knowledgable.
The things you state as facts are not true. At least not in the way you present them.
Your firsthand experience of a whopping 6 months means NOTHING for a bunch of reasons. First of all, 6 months doesn't exactly make you a veteran. Would you say 6 months of boxing training makes you an expert on boxing? Would you claim to know better than someone with 20+ years of experience? Well, that's youthful arrogance for you...
Another reason your firsthand experience doesn't mean anything, is the fact that you most likely trained the wrong way. What do I base this on? You talk of muscle gains, and that is not the purpose of strength training, weights or BW for a fighter.

My suggestion to you is to think hard about HOW MUCH a young boy like you has to learn (not just about training, weights and boxing, but about life), and LISTEN to what people with more experience (some of us have been in this game longer than you've been alive) and more knowledge than you, have to say. You might want to start with that Rossboxing link. It really clears up a lot of the misconceptions you seem to have.

[Exige Jr]

Well, I seem to remember you and I having had less than constructive discussions in the past. Try surprising me by reading it with an open mind, instead of just answering with a bunch of insults.

BEing prettier than a warthog doesn't make you Miss World. Knowing more than someone who's clearly ignorant (ie. the people you refer to), doesn't make you knowledgable.
The things you state as facts are not true. At least not in the way you present them.
Your firsthand experience of a whopping 6 months means NOTHING for a bunch of reasons. First of all, 6 months doesn't exactly make you a veteran. Would you say 6 months of boxing training makes you an expert on boxing? Would you claim to know better than someone with 20+ years of experience? Well, that's youthful arrogance for you...
Another reason your firsthand experience doesn't mean anything, is the fact that you most likely trained the wrong way. What do I base this on? You talk of muscle gains, and that is not the purpose of strength training, weights or BW for a fighter.

My suggestion to you is to think hard about HOW MUCH a young boy like you has to learn (not just about training, weights and boxing, but about life), and LISTEN to what people with more experience (some of us have been in this game longer than you've been alive) and more knowledge than you, have to say. You might want to start with that Rossboxing link. It really clears up a lot of the misconceptions you seem to have.

I insulted you by calling you a wanker, once. And that was banter.

I read that article. It backs up my point. "Body Weight training is excellent" as a massive subtitle. Plus the fact that my advise has been all along "just stick to body weight exercises and boxing related workouts and you cant go wrong". There is nothing wrong with that advice. Just because I advise against using weights, doesnt mean my advise is lacking in any way. The reason I advise against weights is because firstly I cannot formulate a weights training schedule for someone, since they are specific to the person. Also because people get the wrong idea about weights and I dont wanna be responsible for them not getting the results they think they will get.

6 months was plenty of time for me to realise that I hadnt made enough gains to continue. And btw, I followed Ross' advise for that 6 month period. I experienced slight muscular gains, not massive, but slight. I also built speed and power. However I put a lot of effort into it and tried to make it work. The amount of effort I put in was disproportionate to the gains I was getting. Hence I say "weights are overrated" and just advise calisthenics/plyometrics and so on and so forth.

[NJFighter91]

The only weighted exercises that I believe are good are full body ones like the ones in this thread or the Olympic moves. But that's a sport in it's own so unless you can naturally do them, I'd stick with bodyweight.

[PunchDrunk]

I insulted you by calling you a wanker, once. And that was banter.

I read that article. It backs up my point. "Body Weight training is excellent" as a massive subtitle. Plus the fact that my advise has been all along "just stick to body weight exercises and boxing related workouts and you cant go wrong". There is nothing wrong with that advice. Just because I advise against using weights, doesnt mean my advise is lacking in any way. The reason I advise against weights is because firstly I cannot formulate a weights training schedule for someone, since they are specific to the person. Also because people get the wrong idea about weights and I dont wanna be responsible for them not getting the results they think they will get.

6 months was plenty of time for me to realise that I hadnt made enough gains to continue. And btw, I followed Ross' advise for that 6 month period. I experienced slight muscular gains, not massive, but slight. I also built speed and power. However I put a lot of effort into it and tried to make it work. The amount of effort I put in was disproportionate to the gains I was getting. Hence I say "weights are overrated" and just advise calisthenics/plyometrics and so on and so forth.

I guess you read it selectively then. Like when you said "I know enough to know that by lifting weights one loses flexibility." Did you read point 7? Did that back up your point?

Did you read point 13? "Many trainers despise free weight training, yet preach the importance of bodyweight exercise. Others consider bodyweight exercise limited and ineffective, thus limit their training arsenal to weighted resistance work.
Do not fall into this narrow minded trap. Remain open to new ideas and new training modalities. Many fighters have excelled with nothing more than bodyweight exercise. Others have successfully implemented free weight training."

You seem to have missed the overall point of the article in search of little points that would go your way.
The whole article is to clear up the misconception that there is a magic line between weight training and bodyweight training. There is none.

So, you're not in a position where you can tell people how to train with weights. Good you finally figured that out. But why turn around and make another mistake by telling people NOT to do them at all, just because YOU'RE not qualified to guide them ?

You complain that people get the wrong idea about weights, but you say to not do them at all. Yeah, some people get the wrong idea. The ironic bit, is that you're one of them! If you don't want to be responsible for them not getting results, how does NOT POSTING sound? No one forces you to post an answer to every thread, and if you (as you admit yourself) are not qualified to give advice, then just don't. Let someone else give advice, and stick to the things you know something about.

At your age and rate of experience, you should really be here to GET advice, not to GIVE advice. I think one of the reasons there aren't more people with experience and knowledge on this forum, is that there's too many kids, with little experience, and no real knowledge who clutter things up. I mean, everytime one of these threads pop up, I have to get into the same argument all over with some teenager, who's never read a physiology book, hasn't had any fights, hasn't trained anyone, and just simply doesn't have the credentials to tell anyone how they should train. This time I'm having that discussion with you...

[Exige Jr]

I guess you read it selectively then. Like when you said "I know enough to know that by lifting weights one loses flexibility." Did you read point 7? Did that back up your point?

Did you read point 13? "Many trainers despise free weight training, yet preach the importance of bodyweight exercise. Others consider bodyweight exercise limited and ineffective, thus limit their training arsenal to weighted resistance work.
Do not fall into this narrow minded trap. Remain open to new ideas and new training modalities. Many fighters have excelled with nothing more than bodyweight exercise. Others have successfully implemented free weight training."

You seem to have missed the overall point of the article in search of little points that would go your way.
The whole article is to clear up the misconception that there is a magic line between weight training and bodyweight training. There is none.

So, you're not in a position where you can tell people how to train with weights. Good you finally figured that out. But why turn around and make another mistake by telling people NOT to do them at all, just because YOU'RE not qualified to guide them ?

You complain that people get the wrong idea about weights, but you say to not do them at all. Yeah, some people get the wrong idea. The ironic bit, is that you're one of them! If you don't want to be responsible for them not getting results, how does NOT POSTING sound? No one forces you to post an answer to every thread, and if you (as you admit yourself) are not qualified to give advice, then just don't. Let someone else give advice, and stick to the things you know something about.

At your age and rate of experience, you should really be here to GET advice, not to GIVE advice. I think one of the reasons there aren't more people with experience and knowledge on this forum, is that there's too many kids, with little experience, and no real knowledge who clutter things up. I mean, everytime one of these threads pop up, I have to get into the same argument all over with some teenager, who's never read a physiology book, hasn't had any fights, hasn't trained anyone, and just simply doesn't have the credentials to tell anyone how they should train. This time I'm having that discussion with you...

Well if we are gonna play it that way, I take it you read it selectively aswell.

How about title 2. Strength training is not Bodybuilding.

A fighter has no business following a bodybuilding routine. Bodybuilding emphasizes aesthetics. The activity involves posing various muscle groups for a panel of judges. There is no concern for athletic qualities such as speed, power, and endurance. An athlete trains for function. A fighter will not gain points on the judge’s scorecard by crafting a symmetrical pair of pectoral muscles. To compare strength training for a fighter to bodybuilding is like comparing a fresh orange to an artificial apple.

Bare in mind that people come in here and are all like: Yeah im benching pressing 1000lbs at the moment. Or; Im bicep curling the weight of your house.

Not good enough? Ok how about title 4. Multifaceted Competition.

Combat sporting events are multifaceted in nature. One must be well-rounded in terms of his strength preparation. It is not enough to develop one strength quality at the expense of all others. A fighter requires a unique blend of each strength quality.

A fighter requires a unique blend of each strength quality. So for all those people coming in here talking about them leg pressing their shopping. You're wrong.

Not good enough? Ok how about title 6.

When effective methodology is used, exercises with resistance promote not only an increase in movement speed but also perfection of coordination

When effective methodology is used. Sorry, but bench pressing does not constitute effective methodology. Hence why when people come in here asking about "Whats your biggest bench press record" I just ignore the threads and/or promote Body Weight exercises.

Im guessing that I have selectively chosen those. So I will continue. Title 9: No Guarantee's. (quite)

As stated earlier (but worth repeating), the development of one strength quality does not ensure the development of another. Distinct strength properties are often unrelated. One can possess tremendous strength in one form (ex. max-strength), while lacking in other areas (ex. speed-strength).

Nope sorry, asking on the heaviest weight you have bicep curled does not constitute full development of strength, again. I dunno if you noticed but the other day, I promoted "cross training"... What a co-incidence ross agree's with me. Im wrong. You're right. Evidently.

Oh ****, the next ones a killer. Title 10: Stop Searching For The Magic Plan.

No such plan exists, and no such plan will ever exist. Different athletes have different needs. Different athletes have different strengths and weaknesses. Just because two athletes compete in the same sport does not mean that these two individuals should work with the exact plan.

Was this not what I said in my previous post? Nope, I must be hallucinating. I could never have said that. Im 18 and know nothing. Oh yeah and to everyone that comes on here asking about weights this weights that. Absorb this information ^^^. Basically what its telling you is that its impossible for proper advice to be given on weights training because its specific to the individual. I thought I said that in my last post also. Sue me if im wrong.

Im guessing by this point, im still wrong. After all I am 18 with only a years boxing experience. What do I know?

Thus far, we’ve established that strength training can be useful. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. There are several potential problems associated with strength training.

Titled: Potential Problems with Strength Training.. Im wrong. You're right.

Just to kill the discussion:
Taken straight from a UK Royal Marines training literature. Some of the most elite soldiers in the world, who do nothing but strength training for between 32-54 weeks to prepare for being a Royal Marines soldier.

There is no need to rush down to the gym and start lifting lots of heavy weights and spending large amounts of money on gym fee's.

Im wrong. Im 18. Everyone else is right.


P.s I can see your argument, and I see mine also. Ill just leave it down to the people here to decide what they wanna do. You can promote your weights. Ill promote my bodyweight exercises... people make their decision and boom. We have advised. We have done all we can do to help. Or arent I allowed? Did I mention im 18, with a years experience of boxing, only.

[NJFighter91]

This thread should always be bumped. Lots of good info here.

[PunchDrunk]

Well if we are gonna play it that way, I take it you read it selectively aswell.

How about title 2. Strength training is not Bodybuilding.

Bare in mind that people come in here and are all like: Yeah im benching pressing 1000lbs at the moment. Or; Im bicep curling the weight of your house.

Not good enough? Ok how about title 4. Multifaceted Competition.

A fighter requires a unique blend of each strength quality. So for all those people coming in here talking about them leg pressing their shopping. You're wrong.

Not good enough? Ok how about title 6.

When effective methodology is used. Sorry, but bench pressing does not constitute effective methodology. Hence why when people come in here asking about "Whats your biggest bench press record" I just ignore the threads and/or promote Body Weight exercises.

Im guessing that I have selectively chosen those. So I will continue. Title 9: No Guarantee's. (quite)

Nope sorry, asking on the heaviest weight you have bicep curled does not constitute full development of strength, again. I dunno if you noticed but the other day, I promoted "cross training"... What a co-incidence ross agree's with me. Im wrong. You're right. Evidently.

Oh ****, the next ones a killer. Title 10: Stop Searching For The Magic Plan.

Was this not what I said in my previous post? Nope, I must be hallucinating. I could never have said that. Im 18 and know nothing. Oh yeah and to everyone that comes on here asking about weights this weights that. Absorb this information ^^^. Basically what its telling you is that its impossible for proper advice to be given on weights training because its specific to the individual. I thought I said that in my last post also. Sue me if im wrong.

Im guessing by this point, im still wrong. After all I am 18 with only a years boxing experience. What do I know?


Titled: Potential Problems with Strength Training.. Im wrong. You're right.

Just to kill the discussion:
Taken straight from a UK Royal Marines training literature. Some of the most elite soldiers in the world, who do nothing but strength training for between 32-54 weeks to prepare for being a Royal Marines soldier.

Im wrong. Im 18. Everyone else is right.


P.s I can see your argument, and I see mine also. Ill just leave it down to the people here to decide what they wanna do. You can promote your weights. Ill promote my bodyweight exercises... people make their decision and boom. We have advised. We have done all we can do to help. Or arent I allowed? Did I mention im 18, with a years experience of boxing, only.

Title 2: Strength training is not bodybuilding. That's MY point! Look over the threads, and see how many times I've said that.

Title 4: You're arguing with ME now, not "people come in here and are all like: Yeah im benching pressing 1000lbs at the moment. Or; Im bicep curling the weight of your house."
You tell those people not to do weights at all. I give them the basic guideline of what a weights workout should do and consist of for a fighter.

Title 6: Again, you're arguing with me, not people who just want to post bench press numbers. Bench press can be a pretty good exercise for a boxer. Personally, I use other alternatives.
The point here is, don't hold me accountable for what other people post.

Title 9: Same as above. You'll never see me promoting curls, so why do you even say **** like that??

Title 10: In your previous post you said: "The reason I advise against weights is because firstly I cannot formulate a weights training schedule for someone, since they are specific to the person. Also because people get the wrong idea about weights and I dont wanna be responsible for them not getting the results they think they will get."
What you seem to have missed is that the perfect plan is NOT JUST ABOUT WEIGHTS BUT TRAINING IN GENERAL!!! Yet you have no hesitation when you promote bodyweight workouts??? It's the same damn thing. If you can't promote one thing because everything is individual, you can't promote anything at all. (which is probably better anyway)


"Basically what its telling you is that its impossible for proper advice to be given on weights training because its specific to the individual."

See, you need to leave out the word WEIGHTS in that statement, because it applies to all training.

I'm not telling anyone to rush down to the gym and lift lots of heavy weights. But telling someone to NOT lift weights at all is not the solution they're asking for, when they're asking HOW to use weights. I don't see why it's so hard to respect that?

You still haven't realized that what Ross' article is saying is not what you're saying? The article is trying to clear up a lot of misgivings people have about weights (and training in general). It is NOT opposed to using weights. YOU are. Therefore saying the articleproves your point is bul****.

You are allowed to give advice. You are also allowed to take advice. Think it out before you post ultimate statements like "don't use weights," because it's wrong, and it's dumb. Yes training is a big, complex issue, but making oversimplified statements like that is NOT helping anyone. That is how training myths start.

You're 18 with ONE year of experience (no fights though). I'm 34 with 20 years of experience. I have the highest training education in this country, I read on training everyday, I train national and international level fighters 6-10 times a week. I STILL need to learn new things, and I'll continue to learn every day of my life. It's like you trying to teach the class on your first day of college.

[NJFighter91]

Going back to the original topic...I can't use the dumbells because my ceiling is too short in my basement

This sucks...

[Exige Jr]

Title 2: Strength training is not bodybuilding. That's MY point! Look over the threads, and see how many times I've said that.

Title 4: You're arguing with ME now, not "people come in here and are all like: Yeah im benching pressing 1000lbs at the moment. Or; Im bicep curling the weight of your house."
You tell those people not to do weights at all. I give them the basic guideline of what a weights workout should do and consist of for a fighter.

Title 6: Again, you're arguing with me, not people who just want to post bench press numbers. Bench press can be a pretty good exercise for a boxer. Personally, I use other alternatives.
The point here is, don't hold me accountable for what other people post.

Title 9: Same as above. You'll never see me promoting curls, so why do you even say **** like that??

Title 10: In your previous post you said: "The reason I advise against weights is because firstly I cannot formulate a weights training schedule for someone, since they are specific to the person. Also because people get the wrong idea about weights and I dont wanna be responsible for them not getting the results they think they will get."
What you seem to have missed is that the perfect plan is NOT JUST ABOUT WEIGHTS BUT TRAINING IN GENERAL!!! Yet you have no hesitation when you promote bodyweight workouts??? It's the same damn thing. If you can't promote one thing because everything is individual, you can't promote anything at all. (which is probably better anyway)


"Basically what its telling you is that its impossible for proper advice to be given on weights training because its specific to the individual."

See, you need to leave out the word WEIGHTS in that statement, because it applies to all training.

I'm not telling anyone to rush down to the gym and lift lots of heavy weights. But telling someone to NOT lift weights at all is not the solution they're asking for, when they're asking HOW to use weights. I don't see why it's so hard to respect that?

You still haven't realized that what Ross' article is saying is not what you're saying? The article is trying to clear up a lot of misgivings people have about weights (and training in general). It is NOT opposed to using weights. YOU are. Therefore saying the articleproves your point is bul****.

You are allowed to give advice. You are also allowed to take advice. Think it out before you post ultimate statements like "don't use weights," because it's wrong, and it's dumb. Yes training is a big, complex issue, but making oversimplified statements like that is NOT helping anyone. That is how training myths start.

You're 18 with ONE year of experience (no fights though). I'm 34 with 20 years of experience. I have the highest training education in this country, I read on training everyday, I train national and international level fighters 6-10 times a week. I STILL need to learn new things, and I'll continue to learn every day of my life. It's like you trying to teach the class on your first day of college.

No I can advise on bodyweight exericses, because I know that if you do 10 press ups a day, you will get stronger. Period.

If you do 10 bicep curls a day, dont come running to me when you lose flexibility and gain absolutely no strength. Well its all dependent... you may not lose flexibility. It all depends on how u do them. For instance if you are activating the fast and slow twitch fibers or if you are just activating the slow twitch fibers and adding uneccessary bulk... Hence the reason I will never promote a strength training schedule based around lifting weights. I might link Ross, but I wouldnt do it myself... Instead ill choose the safer traditional option and say do some press ups, sit ups etc. Sorted! How can someone go wrong doing some press ups and sit ups? They cant.

Btw, I never actively said "dont do weights!!!!", I just try to persuade people into other training methods... Gaining all around strength -- max, explosive and stamina strength, through basic ground work routines...