If punching power = Speed X Strength why is weightlifting not good for boxers?

[Hype job]

I think this is goofy old school thinking. Now ultimately to be a big puncher you need strength and velocity when delivering the punch... but of course there are many other factors involved, arm length, technique, bone density, accuracy, timing, balance, confidence, punching with conviction etc etc... but assuming all these are corrected why would lifting not benefit an fighters power?

The biggest problem I suspect would be gaining size which will slow you down, but in my opinion gaining strength without too much mass will without doubt increase power.

Most of these russian guys look pretty damn strong, Beterbiev looks like he lifts, as does Kovalev, Mosley lifted and he was a massive puncher.

[juggernaut666]

I think this is goofy old school thinking. Now ultimately to be a big puncher you need strength and velocity when delivering the punch... but of course there are many other factors involved, arm length, technique, bone density, balance, confidence, punching with conviction etc etc... but assuming all these are corrected why would lifting not benefit an fighters power?

The biggest problem I suspect would be gaining size which will slow you down, but in my opinion gaining strength without too much mass will without doubt increase power.

Most of these russian guys look pretty damn strong, Beterbiev looks like he lifts, as does Kovalev, Mosley lifted and he was a massive puncher.

def . helps as long as you lift for strength not size.... i think i know a bit about this subject and weights like concentrated curls for me helps with hooking power add in resistance and wrist /hand training you develope crushing power you just have to know what your doing.

[Hype job]

def . helps as long as you lift for strength not size.... i think i know a bit about this subject and weights like concentrated curls for me helps with hooking power add in resistance and wrist /hand training you develope crushing power you just have to know what your doing.

Agreed, I also think the deadlift, bench and military press would help, but like you said strength not size.

[AddiX]

This topic will always be debated amongst boxers and trainers.

As someone who boxed for years and now strength trains, I don't really feel like lifting has a huge effect on power.

And I also am less flexible and the added muscle requires more oxygen which mean in a fight, I'll burn out much quicker.

I've also noticed certain punches aren't anywhere near as sharp or comfortable as they use to be. I don't know if thats from the extra muscle or from tight joints though, maybe both.

[Hype job]

This topic will always be debated amongst boxers and trainers.

As someone who boxed for years and now strength trains, I don't really feel like lifting has a huge effect on power.

And I also am less flexible and the added muscle requires more oxygen which mean in a fight, I'll burn out much quicker.

I've also noticed certain punches aren't anywhere near as sharp or comfortable as they use to be. I don't know if thats from the extra muscle or from tight joints though, maybe both.

I assume you added weight? If it was a significant gain (10lbs or more) i'd say the difference in stamina and sharpness is probably due to the weight more than anything else.

[SalimShady1212]

Because increasing muscle mass usually decreases speed so as a result you dont get an increase in power but an inverse effect. You can't substantially increase power, it's something your born with. Compound exercises like push ups are better for you as they increase explosiveness. Big muscles are ineffective as they require increased oxygen uptake and that will make you gas. Look at the most concussive punchers in boxing right now: Golovking, Kovalev and Matthysse; guys like that don't really have "large muscles"

[Facade]

I don't believe it's this simple. Punching power is not speed x strength. Technically the impact is determined by speed x mass. If you increase your mass, while also increasing or maintaining your speed your punching power will increase. If you get hit by a truck at 80 miles an hour the impact is greater than when a car hits you at 80 miles an hour. This isn't because the truck has more horsepower, but because it's heavier. In both cases you'll probably be dead but that's not the point for now.

A study conducted on sprinters showed that strength training can increase your speed. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9327528). So basically when you gain strength (and mass) it should be possible to increase your speed as well. I think the problem perhaps lies in the fact that throwing a punch is perhaps a more complex movement than sprinting. Punches can also be thrown from a variety of angles in numerous ways. Sport specific exercises are recommended to increase one's speed. However, this is much harder to do when the movement itself, and therefore the muscles used, varies this much from person to person. Therefore it could be that just generic strength training does not increase punching power the way people expect.

I think weight training can be useful, but I do not think just generic mass gaining will have much effect. You will have to have some idea of what you are doing. It isn't as simple as: I become stronger therefore I punch harder. The training should at least contain some sport specific exercises to maintain speed. But even this is just theory. Although I agree that the anti-weight lifting way of thinking is often not based on anything scientific, the same goes for the pro-side. There isn't any concrete evidence that I'm aware of that links strength gain to an increase in punching power. Where punching power comes from, remains somewhat of a mystery perhaps.

[Banderivets]

/\/\/\ what he said

I have strength trained for years and maintained a weight of 210-220 lb for over 5 years. Now did I get stronger without gaining mass? Yes I did, my speed did improve significantly as well. Think about it, lets say you bench press and military press. You start off at a bench of say 225lb and end up with a bench press of 300lb while maintaining the same body weight.

Key is maintaining body weight and staying lean. Wlad is arguably the heaviest hitter in all of boxing today. The man puts up 275 for 18x! And he is a big boy but he is still relatively lean for someone who can put those numbers up.

However so guys just can't help to bulk up when they lift, its just genetics. Some men just pack on muscle when they get into a lifting routine and they can't help it.

If you add to much bulk the weight cancels out any "speed" gains that you might have had.

Also remember that weight in this case is not just the weight of your arm or anything like that....its the mass that you put behind your fist using the rest of your body. I know a couple of fat guys who can **** and they are weak strength wise, they just have heavy arms and limber shoulders allowing them to swing with ease when throwing a hook lets say...where the jacked up body builder is just too stiff in the shoulders to throw a fast punch.

But you also have big roided guys that can ****.....the list just goes on. But STRENGTH training can def help.

[Elroy1]

Strength training CAN help punching power, in particular by bracing and absorbing more impact force through the muscles and transferring more of the power delivered. All muscles contribute to this but the posterior chain, the OPPOSITE muscles usually responsible for the mechanics of the punch itself, help to transfer the most power!

That said though, resistance training for muscle strength can also have a DETRIMENTAL effect on punching power as well pushing in the other direction. This is because weightlifting stiffens joints and muscles but most importantly, it messes up the neurological pathways for punching. Specifically, heavy weights engage both the agonist and antagonist muscles at the same time under high tension regardless of the direction your pushing in (in order to stabilise the weight as you push it). This is opposite for what a punch requires which is relaxation of the antagonist so it doesn't resist powerful movement. Also it trains one to FEEL the weight all the way trhough the movement. During a punch you don't WANT to feel it.

Weights train your muscles to be slow and to resist the powerful movement. Even Olympic Weightlifters DO NOT PERFORM PRESSING MOVEMENTS LIKE BODYBUILDERS! Because the contolled lift above their head ruins their explosiveness!

So when it comes to weightlifting there is a considerable double-edged sword.

However, WEIGHT (body mass) in any form only contributes to power, even in the form of fat! A heavier person= a heavier punch plain and simple!.

[Elroy1]

And now addressing the punch power equation...

Simple linear equations for punching power whether strengthxspeed, massxspeed or a more complicated version encapsulating the principles I outlined in the above post, STILL don't capture punching power.

These equations are great if we are talking about a shot put, or a baseball pitch, as our power is continually transferred to something else which is released at the end unhindered.

But punching in extremely complicated by comparison. It involves DECELERATING your motion at the last moment of impact upon your opponent and hardening yourself into a stiff rock in order to transfer the power from the ground, through your body and the extremity of your hand, onto your opponent as efficiently as possible.

Even if you are the heaviest and fastest person, you are not guaranteed a hard punch if you do not have this decelation and impact tension down pat to transfer the power over.

I venture that (aside from technique which is assumed good) the timing of the impact and the momentary tension achieved from floor to fist (including the torque as punching is largely a circular movement not straight) is the most important aspect of punching power. Or atleast as important as weight! Certainly more important than speed of punch! Many guys are slow but can still hit really hard, even if they are not the biggest guys.

The best description of punching technique I have seen is on ExpertBoxing.com. 3 articles on punching power..

"Why weights wont increase punching power - Part 1 and 2"

AND

"The 3 phases of a punch"