At this point, has Canelo redeemed and/or further solidified his status as elite?

[champion4ever]

Canelo has always been an elite fighter. His only loss came to one of the best who has ever done it; Money May.

[Redd Foxx]

Totally different topic and not relevant to the conversation but would you consider James Toney elite? Because he fits all those criteria too.

And you do make good points most definitely, but I would say the things you mentioned stop a fighter being great as opposed to elite.

I think much of it has to do with the vague terminology. To me, an elite fighter has the qualities to be a "a great", but may or may not have the resume to be classified a great.
I can also call a guy a great fighter, without considering him elite or "a great" in the traditional sense.

So, we might actually agree about how good he is, but could be using different terminology since there's not really a baseline for a lot of this stuff.

Regarding Toney, I'll be completely honest in that I lack historical perspective regarding the man. I've looked up all his high profile fights and have watched his technique over many hours but that's not the same as following the fights in that era and having a good sense of the quality of the people he was fighting.

In Toney, I see a level of technical brilliance that comes and goes. He performed certain things on elite level, but not consistently. I don't know that I can rate him as I'm just not educated enough as to what was going on then and exactly how good some of those guys he fought were since I haven't seen them in a lot of other fights (aside from an obvious few).
A guy like Hearns, I know exactly where he stands having watched all his fights and being familiar with so many of the guys he fought (even though I "wasn't there") . Toney, I really don't know for sure.

[TJ highway]

He is an elite fighter but redeemed himself? A drugs cheat in my eyes can never be redeemed.

He might have redeemed himself the second time around. It was a close fight.

But the 1st fight was a robbery! A draw on the score cards (115-113, Golovkin, 114-114, draw, but Adelaide Byrd card of 118-110 for Canelo was criminal.

Fan Boy can't admit to that.

Then Clenelo tested positive for clenbuterol and was awarded a one year retrieve till the rematch.


The young 28 yr old fighter and old 36 year old fighter and then has the nerve to say the year off won't affect me.

Well no **** Sherlock!

[techliam]

He’s as good as a 37 year old Golovkin

Make of that what you will.

Personally, he’s elite but in a very weak middleweight era, the same problem Golovkin has

[techliam]

I think much of it has to do with the vague terminology. To me, an elite fighter has the qualities to be a "a great", but may or may not have the resume to be classified a great.
I can also call a guy a great fighter, without considering him elite or "a great" in the traditional sense.

So, we might actually agree about how good he is, but could be using different terminology since there's not really a baseline for a lot of this stuff.

Regarding Toney, I'll be completely honest in that I lack historical perspective regarding the man. I've looked up all his high profile fights and have watched his technique over many hours but that's not the same as following the fights in that era and having a good sense of the quality of the people he was fighting.

In Toney, I see a level of technical brilliance that comes and goes. He performed certain things on elite level, but not consistently. I don't know that I can rate him as I'm just not educated enough as to what was going on then and exactly how good some of those guys he fought were since I haven't seen them in a lot of other fights (aside from an obvious few).
A guy like Hearns, I know exactly where he stands having watched all his fights and being familiar with so many of the guys he fought (even though I "wasn't there") . Toney, I really don't know for sure.

I agree with some of these points

I would emphasise how greats separate themselves from their peers, who are often good fighters in their own right. Look no further than Pacquiao, Marquez and Mayweather.

Canelo hasn’t done that really. His fights with Lara, Trout, Cotto and now Golovkin show that he isn’t really on the next level compared to his peers. With less favourable judges he wouldn’t even have the consideration

[stealthradon]

When did he weigh that?
Certainly not before the fight.
He must if came in around 170 or higher Like most other middleweights.

When he fought Chavez. He weighed 164.5 at weigh-in

[elfag]

He is a lock for top 3 p4p today.

I would place him as p4p #1 because I really like resumes and he has a waaay better resume than loma or crawford right now.

[TonyGe]

Absolutely. He's one of the greatest fighters in the world.

Golovkin had all the physical advantages over him. Height, reach, weight.

If Canelo was the same size as Golovkin that fight wouldn't have been close. He beat Golovkin despite the handicap.

Canelo reach is 1/2 inch longer than Golovkin's and he is 8 years younger and he barely won officially. It doesn't matter because he lost that fight anyway.

[IronDanHamza]

I think much of it has to do with the vague terminology. To me, an elite fighter has the qualities to be a "a great", but may or may not have the resume to be classified a great.
I can also call a guy a great fighter, without considering him elite or "a great" in the traditional sense.

So, we might actually agree about how good he is, but could be using different terminology since there's not really a baseline for a lot of this stuff.

Regarding Toney, I'll be completely honest in that I lack historical perspective regarding the man. I've looked up all his high profile fights and have watched his technique over many hours but that's not the same as following the fights in that era and having a good sense of the quality of the people he was fighting.

In Toney, I see a level of technical brilliance that comes and goes. He performed certain things on elite level, but not consistently. I don't know that I can rate him as I'm just not educated enough as to what was going on then and exactly how good some of those guys he fought were since I haven't seen them in a lot of other fights (aside from an obvious few).
A guy like Hearns, I know exactly where he stands having watched all his fights and being familiar with so many of the guys he fought (even though I "wasn't there") . Toney, I really don't know for sure.

That's fair and I totally agree with where you're coming from.

[jcj0427]

And who the hell you are?

He won, baby, don't cry...

im a boxing fan entitled to have my opinion. thats who the f*** i am. And your PED boy Nelo lost both fights.