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Greb, Armstrong, Robinson, Tunney, Ali, Benny Leonard, Ross, Canzoneri, Langford, Jack Johnson, Joe Jeaneatte, Sam Mcvea, Harry Wills, Jack Blackburn, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Michael Spinks
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Bhop not long before fighting Joe Calzaghe beat Tarver, Winky and some argue he should have been the first one to beat J.Taylor he by all means was a late bloomer who came on very strong in the last portion of his career perhaps because he wasn't as heavily reliant on speed like guys such as Mosley and Pacquiao.Originally posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Allow someone else to go into detail about why Floyd's resume isn't as good as it's being made out to be his resume from 130-135 certainly doesn't **** over Joe's.
What shocks me more is the fact Joe had a world title for so god damn long at 168 yet no Yank from 1997 all the way to 2006 wanted to do anything about it say what you want about Jeff Lacy but he had more balls to go for this fight than James Toney and all the other guys that are so highly rated.1) Diego Corrales – Corrales was undefeated with a high KO ratio, but he never beat ONE elite fighter in his entire career. Somehow, people think that because the pound for pound rankings listed him highly, he was a dangerous and great opponent. That is far from the truth. The rankings at the time were ridiculously inaccurate. Corrales was listed right behind Roy Jones, and ahead of Bernard Hopkins and Lennox Lewis. I’m sorry, but I don’t see how beating the likes of Robert Garcia, Juuko, and Manfredy can make you better than Bernard Hopkins and Lennox Lewis. Corrales was simply a 130 pound version of Deontay Wilder – an undefeated record with a high KO ratio in a weak division.
Instead of being blind sheep believing everything the flawed ranking system says, it is easy to see that Corrales was a hype job when putting his career in context. He NEVER beat one elite fighter. He lost to Casamayor, and only beat him with a controversial decision. He was KOd by Jose Luis Castillo in a mere 4 rounds. A journeyman in Joshua Clottey easily outboxed him. If he was as good as people falsely make him out to be, he wouldn’t fail so often against average competition.
Corrales’ status of champion at 130 only proves how weak the division was, not the strength of Corrales as a boxer. I never hear people proclaim how magnificent Clottey was for dominating Corrales, but for some reason Mayweather gets all the praise in the world for the same unimpressive achievement
2) Genaro Hernandez – NEVER beat one elite fighter in his career. He beat Azumah Nelson, but Azumah was far past his prime. His status as a champion, like Corrales, is a testament to the weakness of his division, not his strength as a boxer.
3) Jose Luis Castillo – Castillo is a solid fighter. Beating the likes of Verdell Smith and Stevie Johnston, however, does not make you a magnificent champion-caliber fighter. In spite of not previously having beaten ONE elite fighter in his career, he was able to expose Mayweather in their first match only to get robbed. I can already hear people preparing the excuse that Mayweather had a shoulder injury.
They should remember that a torn rotator cuff didn’t stop Evander Holyfield from taking Michael Moorer, a much tougher opponent than Castillo, to decision that could have gone either way. Castillo beat Mayweather so decisively that the decision could not have gone in Mayweather’s favor, but the judges decided to not pay attention that night. Mayweather did beat Castillo in the rematch, but Castillo never beat an elite opponent (we established beyond doubt that Corrales is not elite) in his life outside of Mayweather. For Mayweather to be the only elite fighter Castillo fought and beat is a very dubious distinction that he has to hold on to for the rest of his days. This win, especially factoring in the initial fight, does not validate any of Mayweather’s claims to being an all-time great.
4) Arturo Gatti – Floyd Mayweather has stated in his own words that Gatti was a C-class fighter. And he is correct. Gatti gave the sport some of its most memorable moments, but he did not beat an elite fighter in his career. Floyd Mayweather himself dismisses Gatti as a low level fighter, proving that his title at the time was a paper one. This is also the case with Castillo, Hernandez, and Corrales.
5) Zab Judah – Judah is infamous for always losing his big fights. By defeating Zab, Mayweather did not do anything that hasn’t already been done. Cory Spinks, Kosta Tzyu, Baldomir, and Clottey all defeated Zab, so there is no way this win can elevate Floyd to great status when every decent boxer has already beaten an incredibly weak opponent like Judah. If Floyd is somehow considered a boxing legend based off of this win, then Clottey and Baldomir aren’t far behind.
6) Carlos Baldomir – Baldomir’s only notable accomplishment is beating big name/low quality fighters like Gatti and Judah. There are several boxers that have defeated Baldomir, and none of them are considered to be great based only off of beating Baldomir. Floyd is no exception.
7) Oscar De La Hoya – Oscar heading into the fight with Floyd was 2-2 in his last four. On top of that, he was gifted a win versus Sturm, making him 1-3 in reality. His lone win? The incredibly inconsistent Ricardo Mayorga. It is unquestionable that Oscar was completely past his prime. Some are going to try to give Mayweather extra credit for this win based on the fact that Oscar decided the gloves and ring. That is ridiculous. Oscar had no unfair advantage in doing so, so it does not make Floyd’s win any more impressive. Floyd and Oscar used the same ring and same gloves, so there is no obstacle to overcome.
Mayweather did the same thing against Maidana with the glove situation, even after the commission approved a pair of Maidana’s gloves, and very few people discredit Mayweather’s win on that basis. It is hypocritical to turn around and give Mayweather extra credit for beating Oscar under similar circumstances.
Above all else, Oscar is a big name and a good boxer, but far from the great boxer everyone makes him out to be. In the vast majority of his big fights, here is what happened; he was gifted an undeserved win over a past prime Whitaker, he needed a highly debated decision to beat Ike Quartey, he lost to Shane Mosley, in a fight he should have won against Trinidad, he literally ran away for three rounds, and he was stopped by both Hopkins and Pacquiao.
Again, by defeating Oscar, he didn’t do anything that hadn’t already been done. On top of that, the truly great fighters like Pernell and Bernard defeated Oscar before he was washed up like when he fought Mayweather, making Mayweather’s win even less impressive compared to better boxers like Whitaker and Hopkins.
8) Ricky Hatton – Here are Hatton’s best wins; C-class Malignaggi, shot Castillo, and Kosta Tzyu. Kosta Tzyu, like Corrales, was ridiculously overrated on the pound for pound rankings at the time. Can anyone name me one impressive win on Tzyu’s resume? Tzyu beat a beyond shot Chavez, and then he beat Zab Judah, who always lost in all of his big fights. He was ranked ahead of Winky, Barrera, Morales and Pacquiao.
Somehow beating Zab Judah is enough to put you above elite competition like the aforementioned fighters. Hatton is not a great fighter based off of his win over Tzyu, and the horrible rankings do not hide this. If beating Zab Judah made you the third best boxer in the world, like Tzyu at the time, then there is a multitude of boxers that should be up there. Hatton only fought two elite fighters in his career, and was obliterated both times. A win over Hatton is far from impressive looking at his unbelievably weak undefeated record.
9) Juan Manuel Marquez – this is the only boxer Floyd has fought that was elite and in his prime. Even this win doesn’t come without an asterisk. Marquez was undersized by two weight classes, and Mayweather had an extra advantage when he didn’t make weight. This is still a good win, but it can’t be blown out of proportion. One good win in 46 fights is far from the hallmark of a great boxer, especially with the huge weight advantage.
10) Shane Mosley – Mosley was almost 40 years old at the time. He was coming off two wins against an average opponent in Mayorga and a washed up Margarito. He had already been badly beaten four times by Winky and Vernon, on top of a loss to Cotto. This win is far from impressive, and any rankings at the time of the fight don’t hide that. Immediately after his Mayweather fight, he had a draw with Sergio Mora. That’s more than enough proof of how washed up Mosley was.
11) Victor Ortiz and Robert Guerrero – two D class fighters who have never beaten an elite fighter in their entire lives. Apparently, beating the likes of Andre Berto is enough to earn a fight against a supposedly “great” boxer like Mayweather.
12) Miguel Cotto – Cotto lost his prime after the plaster incident with Margarito and his beating at the hands of Pacquiao. His defeat of an even more hobbled Sergio Martinez, with multiple knee and shoulder surgeries, does not hide how Cotto slowed down. Martinez’s struggles against the likes of Matthew Macklin one fight earlier, combined with his age and multiple brutal fights, prove that he is no longer the fighter that dominated Chavez and knocked out Paul Williams.
Even though Cotto is still a good win, despite Cotto being past his prime, it can’t be blown out of propotion. Immediatley after Mayweather, Cotto lost to Trout. Nobody considers Trout an extremely great boxer for beating a past prime Cotto, so Mayweather doesn’t get any special treatment.
13) Canelo Alvarez – Canelo is not proven yet. He has his chance against Erislandy Lara. Until then, he has only beaten a 40-year-old Mosley, the limited Angulo (who lost against all his top opponents), and an average opponent in Austin Trout.
14) Marcos Maidana – Roger Mayweather himself stated Maidana beat not one impressive opponent. In spite of getting easily outboxed by Alexander and losing to Khan, the limited Maidana gave Mayweather massive problems. Only after Maidana faded was Mayweather able to pull out a 7-5, 8-4 type of decision. Mayweather only was able to land punches when he was in the middle of the ring, and Maidana dominated Floyd on the inside for the vast majority of the fight.
Roy Jones Jr fighting Joe wasn't really possible since Roy moved to 175 not long after Joe won a world title
James Toney fighting Joe not capable because James was a lazy fighter who instead of staying in shape and down at realistic weight classes he'd rather bloat up to a fat balloon.
Joe for his time from being a champion at 168 he fought good opponents Richie Woodhall, Robin Reid, Bhop, Kessler, B.Mitchell when you think of it the only person he really never fought that I think he should have fought was Sven Ottke but it's not his fault that Roy Jones and J.Toney decided to move up.Comment
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Genaro was never elite or great. Sure, he was good but far from great. He had very brittle hands and never beat any great fighters. His biggest fight was DLH and he quit after six rounds. You compare that with facing the beastly, hard-punching Salvador Sanchez after 10 fights? No comparison.Originally posted by therealpugilist View Post
Well, Castillo did balloon up and yeah sure it does but how many guys have had to fight somebody much bigger who gained a lot overnight? Since same day weigh ins ended, pretty much every fighter has dealt with that.
5 division title holder is fine, but come on, man. We live in an era where Guerrero and Ricky Burns are multi-divisional champions. These guys would have never gotten within smelling distance of a belt forty years ago or even thirty.
Fighting from 130-154 in a steady progression over the course of a nineteen year career? Well, not really. Hearns- 147-cruiserweight, Leonard- 147-175, Duran-135-168, Armstrong- 126-160, Robinson- 147-175, Toney- 160-heavyweight. I mean, this has been done a hell of a lot. Sam Langford was naturally smaller than any heavyweight of his era but he fought all the ones who would actually fight him like multiple times- ten times some of them. That's courage.
It takes courage to get in the ring period? Well, we're now dropping the bar down to every single guy who ever fought. And this guy's supposed to be the GOAT with the very best resume?
Yes he was the older fighter against Berto(weak), Pac(credit for this but put off the fight forever), Maidana(limited), Canelo(inexperienced, green), Guerrero(very weak), Ortiz(weak, quits every fight). Just not that impressive. Look at Duran's David vs. Goliath win over a twenty-something Barkley when Duran was 37. Now that was impressive.
And that must be one interesting ranking system for those guys to be top five. Baldomir? Really? Gatti? Floyd said Gatti was C level- not to mention washed up. That was after the Micky Ward wars.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree here, man. Keep up the good posts!Comment
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When did I say he was better?Originally posted by Canelo and GGG View Post
I never mentioned Ali or srr
But PAC jmm Barrera morales and some of those guys mentioned was just you throwing out names...its clear their accomplishments n resume don't stack up
Odlh had 2 inches and 10-15 pounds on Floyd
So how was he a giant over them when he had the sane height advantage but less weight?
I'm the fan boy lol
Call me what you wantComment
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Stopped reading when you said Hernandez wasn't eliteOriginally posted by anthonydavid11 View Post
The man was the lineal champ had over a half a dozen defences and beat several world champions
How can I have a decent conversation with you about boxing when you just said a guy who was the champ for years and only lost to odlh @ 135 was not elite...came back to 130 and beat several top guys before running into pbf
Watch him fight, you probably never have.Comment
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This here is a legitOriginally posted by Mr.DagoWop View Post
Unbiased list
All had atg deep resumes
Most had over 100 fights to boot....warriorsComment
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Care to go into detail as to how PAC, Barrera, & morales don't stack up..?Originally posted by therealpugilist View PostComment
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News flashOriginally posted by BM dnobagaV View Post
They were in the same era.... May weather was the best of the era
He beat more champions, made it look easy, defended his titles more , beat more champs
You have to go to top 20 ATG to legitimately say their resume was better
PAC may be top 20 ATG but he clearly doesn't have a better resume than money. Besides belts across weight classes may weather edges him in everything elseComment
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Mayweather has a pretty legit resume outside of the age of his opponents. It isn't too custom nowadays for fighters to fight multiple times unless it is a draw or a really close fight. Back in the early 20th century Sam Langford fought Harry Wills(not sure off of the top of my head) around 17 times. Talk about rivalry. But that was a different era and far more prejudiced unfortunately which made them the only fights available to each other because they were so skilled...and black.Comment
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