How far exactly was Tyson from his prime when he fought Lewis in 2002?

[The plunger man]

You're right, Mike never faced anyone like Lewis before.

Likewise, Lewis had never faced anyone like Mike before.

Prime for prime, it's a very intriguing fight, with a number of possible outcomes.

Yes, Lewis beat Ruddock much easier as well as Tucker.

Mike beat Bruno a lot easier.

Styles make fights.

I was reading up on the whole step aside situation last year. It was very complex, with lots of things happening behind the scenes. Rival promoters, rival networks etc. It wasn't as straightforward as a lot of people think. In the end, Mike ended up fighting Evander for huge money.

Here's an old NSB thread discussing it from 5 years ago, containing lots of interesting information:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/ar.../t-458243.html

That was a forum discussion you sent me....fans words...listen jay Larkin was in control of Tysons future fights at showtime and he was more don kings sidekick at showtime than anything else....the fight was worth a lot more han 10 million to Lewis and King also wanted promotional ties to Lewis that's why that 10 million was turned down...Tyson was offered 45 million to face Lewis.....listen although we will never know Tyson always knew how good Lewis was even when they sparred at Cus dematos gym......Lewis was stitched up by Don King after the MCCall fight and was completely frozen out and even Bruce seldon was suppose to fight Lewis and instead King ushered in Tyson and Lewis was left dangling for 2 more years in the wilderness as Tyson faced other fighters and it all got messy because Tyson refused to face Lewis and paid him money in the end he had to give up his title rather than face his mandatory...I was around the whole time in that stage ...I even went to both the Lewis fights against Holyfield so I remember it very well.....when I say one dimensional in Tyson he was in terms of he only had one way of fighting....and of course he did...he couldn't out box u ....he couldn't stay on the outside and out jab you and use movement....he was primarily a knockout artist who would simply walk right through and leave you prostrate on the canvas...when he couldn't do that and fighters used there size and reach and then tied Tyson up close he became frustrated and not sure how to fight on the inside......Tyson was also a very small heavyweight in terms of size compared to Lewis and Lewis style wise just simply had his number.....again it's always dangerous fighting Tyson in the the first 4 or 5 rounds but Lewis knew how to defuse him......beating the tubbs or the the tiny Michael spinks is not beating a top form Lennox Lewis ....Lewis could fight a number of ways my friend and tyson was pretty much one way ....I like Tyson but I think Lewis was superior

[The plunger man]

Prime V Prime is always tricky. Some fighters have one or two performances of genius in them. Some are just continuously great. Some follow the more normal trajectory.

Fact is that Tyson did not have the discipline to continue his early path. Once Cus died and King stepped in Tyson was a bum waiting to happen. So what was Tyson's prime? It wasn't really his own. It was the protection and discipline he was given by Cus and his team that allowed it. Also his conditioning and speed was monstrous. In that brief prime he would have given anyone hell. Lewis was great and would always be a tougher fight but that very early, protected Tyson would have won.

Any later and he would buckle at solid opposition. He was slower within one or two fights and rested in clinches which he had never done under Cus.

You could never blame Lewis for taking the fight nor feeling validated by his victory.

lewis handled Tyson even even at Cus gym...tyson never boxed anybody with Lewis size and skill in all his defences and you can't say a few fights under the protection of Cus he could have beat Lewis ....because none fighters were anywhere near the skill and size of Lewis.....and we have to go on Tyson record had a short explosive career when he pretty much walked through every challenger who was either beaten before the fight or were simply weak challengers...we see it way before with James quick tillis and even mitch green..then tucker.then smith....it's unfair to even label Tyson as beating Lewis because not one of his challengers before could lace up Lewis's boots....anybody can beat tomatoes cans my friend

[LacedUp]

i hate when ppl use tyson being "past his prime" as an excuse to his loss to lewis. Tyson was still knocking guys out left and right back then, truth is lewis was always a tough fight for tyson.

he had fought like 5 times in 5 years. So no not really.

[robertzimmerman]

That was a forum discussion you sent me....fans words...listen jay Larkin was in control of Tysons future fights at showtime and he was more don kings sidekick at showtime than anything else....the fight was worth a lot more han 10 million to Lewis and King also wanted promotional ties to Lewis that's why that 10 million was turned down...Tyson was offered 45 million to face Lewis.....listen although we will never know Tyson always knew how good Lewis was even when they sparred at Cus dematos gym......Lewis was stitched up by Don King after the MCCall fight and was completely frozen out and even Bruce seldon was suppose to fight Lewis and instead King ushered in Tyson and Lewis was left dangling for 2 more years in the wilderness as Tyson faced other fighters and it all got messy because Tyson refused to face Lewis and paid him money in the end he had to give up his title rather than face his mandatory...I was around the whole time in that stage ...I even went to both the Lewis fights against Holyfield so I remember it very well.....when I say one dimensional in Tyson he was in terms of he only had one way of fighting....and of course he did...he couldn't out box u ....he couldn't stay on the outside and out jab you and use movement....he was primarily a knockout artist who would simply walk right through and leave you prostrate on the canvas...when he couldn't do that and fighters used there size and reach and then tied Tyson up close he became frustrated and not sure how to fight on the inside......Tyson was also a very small heavyweight in terms of size compared to Lewis and Lewis style wise just simply had his number.....again it's always dangerous fighting Tyson in the the first 4 or 5 rounds but Lewis knew how to defuse him......beating the tubbs or the the tiny Michael spinks is not beating a top form Lennox Lewis ....Lewis could fight a number of ways my friend and tyson was pretty much one way ....I like Tyson but I think Lewis was superior

In the link I posted you, the first two comments weren't the opinions of the members of this forum. It was an interview that a member had copied and then posted. It showed you the complexities of the situation. I found it very interesting. I don't think it was a simple case of Mike not wanting to fight Lennox because he feared him. I think there was a lot more to it than that.

Prime for prime, again, I think it'd have been a very intriguing fight.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think Lennox would have defused him.

[robertzimmerman]

lewis handled Tyson even even at Cus gym...tyson never boxed anybody with Lewis size and skill in all his defences and you can't say a few fights under the protection of Cus he could have beat Lewis ....because none fighters were anywhere near the skill and size of Lewis.....and we have to go on Tyson record had a short explosive career when he pretty much walked through every challenger who was either beaten before the fight or were simply weak challengers...we see it way before with James quick tillis and even mitch green..then tucker.then smith....it's unfair to even label Tyson as beating Lewis because not one of his challengers before could lace up Lewis's boots....anybody can beat tomatoes cans my friend

Likewise, Lennox never fought anyone with Mike unique attributes either.

Mike didn't just beat cans.

He beat Bruno much easier than Lennox, and Lennox had a few issues with Bruno.

Styles make fights.

It would have been an awesome fight.

[JJRod]

About 10 years.

[The plunger man]

Likewise, Lennox never fought anyone with Mike unique attributes either.

Mike didn't just beat cans.

He beat Bruno much easier than Lennox, and Lennox had a few issues with Bruno.

Styles make fights.

It would have been an awesome fight.

I'm not saying 100 percent Lewis beats him...but I'm 70% I reckon....and you mention the Bruno fight....but there was also other things involved in that fight....like it being outside in stadium and being really cold...I know because I was there...and topped with it was an all british world title fight that makes the boxers raise there game and more pride is involved....look Tyson was unique when he was at the top but you have to look at all the fighters Lewis beat and all the fighters Tyson beat .....and really Lewis only lost them two fights because he got lazy and over confident.....but ur right it would be a great fight I just think Lewis was just that more technical and clever for him....I rate Lewis very highly

[robertzimmerman]

I'm not saying 100 percent Lewis beats him...but I'm 70% I reckon....and you mention the Bruno fight....but there was also other things involved in that fight....like it being outside in stadium and being really cold...I know because I was there...and topped with it was an all british world title fight that makes the boxers raise there game and more pride is involved....look Tyson was unique when he was at the top but you have to look at all the fighters Lewis beat and all the fighters Tyson beat .....and really Lewis only lost them two fights because he got lazy and over confident.....but ur right it would be a great fight I just think Lewis was just that more technical and clever for him....I rate Lewis very highly

Fair enough.

It's a shame we never saw it.

How do you think a Lewis-Bowe fight would have played out?

[boxinghead530]

Tyson was just a shell of his prime shelf when he fough Lennox. He had a animalistic quality during that press conference when he bit Lennox and went off on the press. But once the press conference was over Tyson was done.

[The plunger man]

Fair enough.

It's a shame we never saw it.

How do you think a Lewis-Bowe fight would have played out?

I think mentally bowe was intimidated by Lewis and I think it all went back to the olympics and him being stopped by him.....he never got over that with Lewis.....there was a small clip on YouTube just after he walked out the ring when he beat Holyfield the 1st time and they have a square up and say things..Lewis was commentating .....both big guys and same kind of reach but I think Lewis when he beat ruddock and was more agile and quick on his feet than bowe.....so I'll stick with Lewis because he proved himself the way he handled golota and bowe was practically beaten up on two occasssions...and I also don't think you would give up your belt and avoid a mega fight with another fighter if you had full confidence that you was going to win....I think after he beat Holyfield he had two easy defences against Ferguson & Michael dokes and then he lost to Holyfield ...the first Holyfield fight was brutal and when you look at it now....he might have suffered some damage because he deteriorated so quickly after that.....Lewis by late stoppage