Who was/is the best welterweight since Leonard/Hearns?

[LacedUp]

What were the WW rankings for 2010?

Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Andre Berto
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Jan Zaveck
Vyacheslav Senchenko
Rafal Jackiewicz
Timothy Bradley

According to Ring. Everyone else had Mosley #1 after Margarito.

[The Big Dunn]

Curry or Floyd.

[John Locke]

What common sense exactly? The guy has lost twice decisively to Manny Pacquiao, had an extremely tough night with LWW Provodnikov and had a close fight with 39 year old Marquez. What common sense are you talking about? I would pick Maidana to beat Bradley, Thurman too probably, Brook, Khan, Mayweather, Pacquiao, maybe Shawn Porter. For me, Bradley's like 7-10. Never been impressed with him.

Yeah Broner was a blown up lightweight, but he was still favoured to win that fight like 4-1. And now of course, he's no good. Right.

I don't think Ortiz and Berto were always C level fighters. They were B level fighters. Guys like Karass and Lopez yes, not very good. Spinks only 'good'? him and Collazo were not the same level fighter! Spinks beat Mayorga and everybody thought he was going to get his ass whupped. It is clearly a top win. Spinks was more or less undefeated.

Now Margarito was past his prime too when Mosley fought him? Now I've heard it all.

Honestly, were you following boxing at the time? I ask you this not as an insult but just to clear things up for me? You are rewriting history left right and centre.

Common sense = eye test

Losing twice against the fighter of the decade is nothing major. He fought with emotion in the Provodnikov fight, he'd easily outbox him if they fought again. Marquez is one the best fighters of this era and I thought Bradley clearly beat him, although it was competitive throughout.

I think there's absolutely no way Maidana beats Bradley unless Bradley fights like he did against Provodnikov, but there's no reason for him to do that.

Thurman and Brook against Bradley are 50-50 fights imo, Khan beats him but I think Bradley is a better overall fighter than Khan.

I guess we'll have to disagree on the levels.

I think the Cotto fight took a lot out of Margarito, plus he wasn't right mentally after the handwrap stuff going into the Mosley fight.

[LacedUp]

Common sense = eye test

Losing twice against the fighter of the decade is nothing major. He fought with emotion in the Provodnikov fight, he'd easily outbox him if they fought again. Marquez is one the best fighters of this era and I thought Bradley clearly beat him, although it was competitive throughout.

I think there's absolutely no way Maidana beats Bradley unless Bradley fights like he did against Provodnikov, but there's no reason for him to do that.

Thurman and Brook against Bradley are 50-50 fights imo, Khan beats him but I think Bradley is a better overall fighter than Khan.

I guess we'll have to disagree on the levels.

I think the Cotto fight took a lot out of Margarito, plus he wasn't right mentally after the handwrap stuff going into the Mosley fight.

eye test also tells me he isn't one of the best at WW. He's a good basic fighter, but he doesn't do anything special. He's not slick, he doesn't have great skills and he doesn't punch hard at all. He's got balls though and a big heart.

I'm not saying it's major that he lost to Pacquiao. Yes, Marquez is one of the best of this era, but not at WW. He's a lightweight. Simple.

Well then the question beckons, did Bradley choose to fight like that or was he forced to fight like that? I think the latter. And Maidana would most definitely force him into a dog fight also.

I guess we will. Out of Margarito and Mosley you think Margarito came out with mental problems? Cotto was far worse off. I don't know about that and besides, that would be his own problem. Not Mosley's. People thought Margarito would win going into the fight and Mosley smashed him up.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Common sense = eye test

Losing twice against the fighter of the decade is nothing major. He fought with emotion in the Provodnikov fight, he'd easily outbox him if they fought again. Marquez is one the best fighters of this era and I thought Bradley clearly beat him, although it was competitive throughout.

I think there's absolutely no way Maidana beats Bradley unless Bradley fights like he did against Provodnikov, but there's no reason for him to do that.

Thurman and Brook against Bradley are 50-50 fights imo, Khan beats him but I think Bradley is a better overall fighter than Khan.

I guess we'll have to disagree on the levels.

I think the Cotto fight took a lot out of Margarito, plus he wasn't right mentally after the handwrap stuff going into the Mosley fight.

Bradley fought with emotion against Pacquiao in the rematch as well, Bradley is one of those fighters who's gonna be inconsistent with his performances because he can't maintain his composure. I'm a fan of his too but I think he needs to be reevaluated as a fighter.

I'd pick Bradley to beat those names you mentioned as well, I think it's a stretch to say "There's absolutely no way Maidana beats Bradley", Maidana could very well land shots and Bradley may lose his head as he's becoming known for.

[Zhang Yong Jun]

Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Andre Berto
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Jan Zaveck
Vyacheslav Senchenko
Rafal Jackiewicz
Timothy Bradley

According to Ring. Everyone else had Mosley #1 after Margarito.

Margarito beats Berto, Cotto, he beat Clottey so your argument ''its not a WW fight doe'' doesn't mean much sir!

[LacedUp]

Margarito beats Berto, Cotto, he beat Clottey so your argument ''its not a WW fight doe'' doesn't mean much sir!

What? Margarito moved to Lightmiddleweight after Mosley, so why the hell would I measure him as a WW against Pacquiao when the bout was fought at lightmiddleweight?

Margarito never fought berto.

[Zhang Yong Jun]

What? Margarito moved to Lightmiddleweight after Mosley, so why the hell would I measure him as a WW against Pacquiao when the bout was fought at lightmiddleweight?

Because he was a career welterweight and better than the names I mentioned (Cotto, Berto, Zaveck etc) that were ranked at the weight.

[LacedUp]

Because he was a career welterweight and better than the names I mentioned (Cotto, Berto, Zaveck etc) that were ranked at the weight.

So Pacquiao is really a 7 division weight champion and not 8?

[John Locke]

eye test also tells me he isn't one of the best at WW. He's a good basic fighter, but he doesn't do anything special. He's not slick, he doesn't have great skills and he doesn't punch hard at all. He's got balls though and a big heart.

I'm not saying it's major that he lost to Pacquiao. Yes, Marquez is one of the best of this era, but not at WW. He's a lightweight. Simple.

Well then the question beckons, did Bradley choose to fight like that or was he forced to fight like that? I think the latter. And Maidana would most definitely force him into a dog fight also.

I guess we will. Out of Margarito and Mosley you think Margarito came out with mental problems? Cotto was far worse off. I don't know about that and besides, that would be his own problem. Not Mosley's. People thought Margarito would win going into the fight and Mosley smashed him up.

Fair enough.

I agree that Bradley isn't great, I was getting all kinds of stick for suggesting last year that he's the most overrated fighter in the world when people had him top 3-5 P4P. But I feel he's gone from being extremely overrated to very underrated.

He definitely chose to fight the way he did vs Provodnikov, Bradley has a habit of getting drawn into little wars but not the way he did against Provodnikov, he just stood there and ******, look how comfortable he was in the middle rounds when he chose to box.

Cotto vs Margs 1 took something out of both of them. Mentally, it was the handwrap thing that hurt Margs. But like I said, stylistically it's a match up that would have always favoured Mosley.