How would Wladimir Klitsckho have faired in the 90's

[Jam Jars]

Well against Rahman Lennox was younger than Wlad is now. Even prior to Tyson's fight (a more than year after) I remember Lennox saying he never was better.

Well Wlad fought Haye very recently, have you forgot I know one thing is that you rate Haye
Prior to that he fought Chagaev, Ibragimov, Chambers, Thompson - all of these I rate higher than Rahman.

No, Vitali that fought Lennox didn't have an experience to fight present Wlad. Wlad could either outbox him or cause him an injury (similar to what happened in Lennox's fight).

Vitali's best was against Gomez and Arreola.

All boxers say they are still at their best, it means nothing. Vitali said himself after the fight that Lewis wasn't in good shape. None of those rate higher than Rahman, you are looking through rose tinted glasses if you believe that. Safety first Wlad loses to that Vitali 10/10 times, Vitali would force him to fight which Wlad has never been able to do.

[redwhip]

I do love how a thread about Wladmir Klitschko becomes a thread involving both Klitshckos

[Simurgh]

I'm sure you can appriciate that Lewis career started off much quicker and better than Wlad's. Age has nothing to do with prime (to a certain extent). Other than beating Tyson, Lewis had done everything else by the time he fought Rahman, and had said the only other thing he wanted was to fight Tyson.

Yes I rate Haye against the current crop of heavies, but he would have been a small fish in a big big pool in the 90's. The other four you mentioned are Wlad's best wins but are similar or worse than Lewis' Morrison's, Botha's, Grant's etc. In fact, I would put money on someone like Morrison, who Lennox screwed up royally, would have beaten every man on Wlad's resume. A primed Golota almost certainly would and Lennox knocked him out in the first. When he was considered the second best heavy.

Altogether, I am not dismissing Wlad, but I would find it extremely hard to justify putting him as a champion when he has not fought top competition.

I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with it.
Lennox started later than Wlad, so he should take more time to get into his prime. Even if you take he developed faster - is it by more than 4 years...

Although I don't rate Botha you forgot that Wlad beat him 1.5 year after Lennox beat him. Other two I don't rate highly at all (especially they both were beaten coming to fight Lennox).

Golota would be TKO/KO by many on Wlad's resume. You can't use Golota just from Bowe fight. Dude had the prob in his head - he gave up so many times. Never really beat anyone too good. One need to hit him harder and be sure he'll either kick you in nuts or just give up. Golota is no good (I actually had a big hope for him, but he is rubbish). I choose smart, durable, skillful guy like prime TT over him any day.

[Jam Jars]

I can't really agree on this. Wlad beat Byrd and became the champion while Lennox at the same age was still in amateurs.

No one anticipated Lennox being KO by McCall and Rahman, but it happened. There is no guarantee it wouldn't happen again if Lennox fought 10-15 more fights.

He wouldn't be 50-0 that's for sure

Rahman and McCall were better than anyone on Wlad's resume. Wladimir lost to a complete bum in Purrity and a part time fighter in Sanders that Rahman beat years before.

[Simurgh]

All boxers say they are still at their best, it means nothing. Vitali said himself after the fight that Lewis wasn't in good shape. None of those rate higher than Rahman, you are looking through rose tinted glasses if you believe that. Safety first Wlad loses to that Vitali 10/10 times, Vitali would force him to fight which Wlad has never been able to do.

That's your opinion. Wlad doesn't need to brawl, he was able to outbox pretty much everybody he faced. I would stick with this one or at least along these lines :

“Wlad has the best footwork, co-ordination and balance of any fighter I have ever worked with. He’s the most accurate, single-punch knockout guy I have seen.

“A guy can be completely fine, not hurt, and Wladimir can put his lights out with one shot.

“He is the most powerful natural talent I have worked with. In terms of jab, Wladimir is the best and after him I would put Lennox.

“Lewis was a more versatile fighter but in terms of boxing arsenal, Wladimir is better.”

On the Lennox - Wlad match up prime for prime I share Manny's opinion (the different one, actually given on Lennox's legacy). Evenly matched, hard to predict.

[Simurgh]

Rahman and McCall were better than anyone on Wlad's resume. Wladimir lost to a complete bum in Purrity and a part time fighter in Sanders that Rahman beat years before.

Yes he didn't but he was far far from his prime.

Actually Purity happened when he was 22, after having 24 fights in less than 2 years....

[Jam Jars]

That's your opinion. Wlad doesn't need to brawl, he was able to outbox pretty much everybody he faced. I would stick with this one or at least along these lines :

“Wlad has the best footwork, co-ordination and balance of any fighter I have ever worked with. He’s the most accurate, single-punch knockout guy I have seen.

“A guy can be completely fine, not hurt, and Wladimir can put his lights out with one shot.

“He is the most powerful natural talent I have worked with. In terms of jab, Wladimir is the best and after him I would put Lennox.

“Lewis was a more versatile fighter but in terms of boxing arsenal, Wladimir is better.”

On the Lennox - Wlad match up prime for prime I share Manny's opinion (the different one, actually given on Lennox's legacy). Evenly matched, hard to predict.

Everyone he has ever faced share non of Vitali's and Lennox's attributes. Posting the opinion of a fighters trainer is a pretty weak argument. Show me a trainer of a world champion that said his current fighter would lose.

[thuggery]

He would have fared just fine Larry.

[WizardKO]

Simurgh.. Wlad is an ATG Heavyweight. He is a great h2h fighter as well, but he DID NOT clean out this era.. In fact he did not even start.

He cleaned out the LAST Era.. (which btw was an horrible era) .. this era is actually looking good but Wlad has yet to fight anybody from THIS ERA apart from Haye.

Fury
Pulev
Jennings
Povetkin
Haye

Possibly:
Wilder
Glazkov
Malik Scott.

Maybe:
D.Price
Chisora


Regardless of weather or not these guys are worthy. Wlad has not cleaned out this era. He already beat arguably the best on that list in Haye,but that's all he did. Can he beat all of the guys listed? Probably. But has he? No.

The era Wlad did 'beat' was
Chambers
Thompson
Sultan
Ruslan
Peters
etc.. that's his era.

[Simurgh]

Everyone he has ever faced share non of Vitali's and Lennox's attributes. Posting the opinion of a fighters trainer is a pretty weak argument. Show me a trainer of a world champion that said his current fighter would lose.

Same goes for Lennox. He never faced anyone with attributes good as Wlad's.
Wlad and Vitali are veeery different fighters.

Manny was trainer of both fighters and he did a detailed analysis. If he wanted just to 'sell wlad' (although Wlad doesn't need selling) he could have said that Wlad is similar or equal or whatever, but instead Manny gave a precise break down. Moreover Manny always said that Lennox would beat Vitali when he was with Klitschkos.
Manny said that Lennox is better than McCall while being trainer of Oliver even after Oliver TKOed Lewis.

I wasn't trying to prove anything or to give an argument - I know it's pointless. One can hardly change an opinion about the favorite fighter compered to least favorite (not to say hated) fighter

I was expressing what I think about the match up.