Can Boxing Fans criticise Pacquiao for his catchweight fights and accept that Ward

[damned1974]

No one is talking about what would have been a waste of time rematch...

I'm not talking about before or during the presser with Pac. I'm talking about the before the fight with Foreman AFTER THE FIGHT WITH PAC. During those pressers. Where he said he felt fine against Pac there was no excuses and after Foreman if there is any good offers he would go back down to WW....Pretty much saying he had no trouble AT THAT TIME to fight at WW. However, fast forward to what you mentioned. He didn't want to sacrifice his body "AGAIN" insinuating he did the first time. When before he said he was OK AFTER THE FACT not BEFORE but AFTER.

I expect Dawson to do the same thing...Even if his body is just as good as Cotto body was at that time...I expect Dawson to give the weight excuse if he losses. It will be interesting though too see how fans would react to that excuse.

It is certainly something that can happen,but until it does,it is speculation. To me, Dawson looks like a good sized LHW...he has said for at least a few years that he would drop to SMW and fight in the S6 tourney...Glen Johnson had some success at SMW...Dawson is young and shouldn't be drained,but until it happens,it is speculation.

[Bushbaby]

I'm not making it sound like anything.

You're a creating a timeline.

You're acting as if Pac said that Foreman is "too tall"(taken out of context) in order to fight Margarito.

Like if the choice was either Foreman or Margarito.. And, that wasn't the case...

It was either Foreman or Clottey. And, regardless if Foreman had a "strap" he wasn't a better opponent than Clottey.

Listen, when Pacman fought Margarito, Foreman had the title. I'm not creating anything. I was talking about Margarito-Foreman. You were talking Clottey-Foreman. We're talking 2 different things. As a matter of fact I've never said Foreman would have been better than Clottey.

We were talking 2 different things, not hard to understand. I don't see why you continue to push Clottey into the convo when I told you that's not the comparison I was making.

[damned1974]

He is also a decent boxer with reach that for some reason TR's matchmaker Goodman didn't think Manny would do well against.

I just thought the too tall reference made no sense. It never was about height.

Well,the most important reason why Manny wouldn't fight Foreman is because he moves around.Watch how ordinary Manny does when fighter are on the backfoot or even simply taking a few steps away from his left hand.

Whether Manny would win is not the question,but the style and physical risk (Yuri runs,can use height and reach)was there before we found out that Yuri is a heartless girl that quit against Pawel Wolak...a fellow featherfist.

[Roman Moreno]

It is certainly something that can happen,but until it does,it is speculation. To me, Dawson looks like a good sized LHW...he has said for at least a few years that he would drop to SMW and fight in the S6 tourney...Glen Johnson had some success at SMW...Dawson is young and shouldn't be drained,but until it happens,it is speculation.

Oscar was talking about going down to WW years before Pac came to the picture...Ring Magazine had Oscar in the cover for a 2005 issue title 'Svelter Welter"

http://www.halloffamememorabilia.com...xr9p3jgqrm.jpg

In the article it talks how Oscar is planning to going back down to WW. That was 3 years before Pac.

When Oscar was negotiating for a rematch with Floyd...The rematch was going to take place at 147 NOT at JMW. That was before Pac came into the picture...Not until Floyd walked away from negotiations and retired did Pac come into the picture in a weight-class that Oscar had been talked about for years and recently negotiated to fight in.

And, it still didn't stop people Pac haters/naysayers from criticizing one of the greatest night in boxing history.

[Roman Moreno]

Listen, when Pacman fought Margarito, Foreman had the title. I'm not creating anything. I was talking about Margarito-Foreman. You were talking Clottey-Foreman. We're talking 2 different things. As a matter of fact I've never said Foreman would have been better than Clottey.

We were talking 2 different things, not hard to understand. I don't see why you continue to push Clottey into the convo when I told you that's not the comparison I was making.

No he didn't bro..And, that is what I'm trying to tell you...He had already lost it to Cotto.

The guy that Pac should have fought instead of Margarito was either Berto at 147 or P-Will above 147....Foreman was out of the picture by then.

Well,the most important reason why Manny wouldn't fight Foreman is because he moves around.Watch how ordinary Manny does when fighter are on the backfoot or even simply taking a few steps away from his left hand.

Whether Manny would win is not the question,but the style and physical risk (Yuri runs,can use height and reach)was there before we found out that Yuri is a heartless girl that quit against Pawel Wolak...a fellow featherfist.

Even though that was never serious...It was just a way to promote Foreman...To get some rub off from Pac...Even if it wasn't the bold is absolutely true.

[damned1974]

Oscar wanted the fight and dragged Pacquiao up 3 weight in a year.

You really think Pacquiao could have bossed Oscar around the negotiation table?

Oscar called the shots.

Oscar had to fight at that weight though...what is he going to do-force Pac to fight at JMW???? lol- He had to meet him at a weight that would be reasonable to the fighters and public-at least enough to try and sell the fight,which was widely viewed as a freakshow circus act in the first place..

Who the hell said Pac bossed Oscar? Get real...my point was that Freddie knew there was no REAL risk against a guy who would be absolutely dead at the weight and was a shot fighter getting a huge shiner against Steve Forbes! lol It is a fight that I don't blame Manny for taking because it further boosted his popularity,but in terms of competition-let's be honest...it is a joke.

[Curtiz]

didn't dawson call him out and offer to come down to 168?

booom **** off thread done

[Roman Moreno]

Oscar had to fight at that weight though...what is he going to do-force Pac to fight at JMW???? lol- He had to meet him at a weight that would be reasonable to the fighters and public-at least enough to try and sell the fight,which was widely viewed as a freakshow circus act in the first place..

Who the hell said Pac bossed Oscar? Get real...my point was that Freddie knew there was no REAL risk against a guy who would be absolutely dead at the weight and was a shot fighter getting a huge shiner against Steve Forbes! lol It is a fight that I don't blame Manny for taking because it further boosted his popularity,but in terms of competition-let's be honest...it is a joke.

That is true.

[boliodogs]

Ward is the 168 lb champ and he is defending it against a very good fighter who challenged him to a fight at 168.Ward worked hard for his tittle and he is not a light heavyweight.If he had challenged Dawson then he should fight him at 175. But Dawson challenged him and said he wanted it at 168.It is not a catchweight fight at all. It's a fight to see who is the best super middleweight in the world. Ward just said yes to the challenge of one of the best fighters in the world. He does not deserve criticism. He deserves praise for fighting the best. It's a great fight.

[damned1974]

That is true.

The whole point of that fight is that it was a great business move.There are 2 forms of perception involved in that fight-

1-the Public's Perception (with the help from the media, the promoters and the hype) and how they can be lured into believing it can be competitive by focusing on how Manny would be at a disadvantage and how Oscar will be "soooo" advantaged.

2-The Professional's Perception-the matchmakers,Freddie,Top Rank,industry experts, etc... the weight of risk and reward,the knowledge of what condition Oscar would most likely be in, his style, where he was at in his career, etc etc...