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Being a fight collector, I've seen all the films that are available of Jack Johnson, Jim Jeffries, Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney along with other past greats. Personally, I don't feel comfortable ranking fighters that far back. It's too easy for some to dismiss them saying they weren't that good, but I don't adhere to that mind set. It's just very hard to grasp their greatness due to the old films, which captured them. The films do them no justice and, with no audio, make it even more difficult to get a true appreciation of their greatness. I have a problem with those who just brush them off because they fought in another era and have adopted the attitude that if it wasn't shown on HBO or it wasn't a Sportscenter highlight, it doesn't mean anything.
Starting around the Joe Louis era the film and audio quality improved tremendously. There is plenty of good film available on the fighters from Louis forward, and I feel that it's more than adequate to get a good feel for the fighters. Plus, Louis was the new wave of fighter, way ahead of his time.
Louis & Ali
In this writer's opinion, Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali are at the top of boxing's heavyweight Mount Rushmore. I am very confident that both of them would defeat all the fighters on this list. Ali and Louis have too many weapons and skills for the other fighters, and they are much more resourceful and complete. So, why do I have Ali over Louis? Most of the time when great fighters face each other, it very often comes down to styles. In a Louis-Ali match up, the style advantage goes to Ali. Other than Billy Conn, and Jersey Joe Walcott, most of Louis' opponents went to him, which played perfectly into his style. Fighters who moved away or circled caused him some difficulty.
Ali's overall speed and movement would make it very difficult for Louis to catch him to where he could unload his precision combinations in order to do the damage he would need to slow Ali. On the other hand, Louis fights a style that Ali is accustomed to facing. Louis would pressure him but not like Frazier or Foreman did, trying to force Ali to react when he didn't want to.
Louis applied more subtle pressure, which is something Ali could handle and exploit, and Louis didn't change for any fighter. Louis would just bide his time waiting for Ali to make a mistake, instead of trying to force him into making one like Frazier and Foreman did. This favors Ali. The bottom line is I take Ali over Louis mainly because Louis would have to change and adjust his fighting style and posture and Ali wouldn't. Another reason I favor Ali over Louis is that he beat better fighters. In Liston, Frazier and Foreman, Ali beat three fighters who make almost everyone's all-time heavyweight top ten ranking. In the case of Frazier and Foreman, Ali defeated them after his 43 month exile, while they were in their respective prime. Ali also is the only heavyweight champion in history whose opponents cannot be questioned, even by the harshest critics. One final thought on Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali, it is my firm belief that both of them are plenty big enough to more than handle the "so-called" giant heavyweight's fighting today. Both Louis and Ali defeated fighters as big or bigger than those currently fighting today. When reviewing both of their career's, it's quite obvious that both of them were more troubled by smaller and quicker fighters opposed to the bigger hulking type ponderous fighters of today.
Below are my heavyweight rankings in order from Joe Louis through Lennox Lewis. From number three George Foreman on, I give my scenario on how I see a match up involving Louis & Ali versus the fighters ranked 3 through 10.
How I Rated the Fighters
I'm a believer in head-to-head, and feel it carries much weight when rating one fighter over another. For me to rate Fighter A over Fighter B, I must feel strongly that A would've defeated B had they confronted each other on their best night. I also think length of title reign can sometimes be misleading. For example, Liston made only one title defense and Foreman only made two. However, both of their title tenures were cut short because they fought during the Ali era. Had Ali not been around, Liston could have remained champ through 1970, and Foreman could have reigned champ from 1973 into the 1990's. Remember, Foreman did capture the title a second time in November of 1994, and that was after a ten-year ring absence.
I ranked George Foreman very high for the fact he was the best puncher in heavyweight history, and had he not lost to Ali, he may have never been beaten. A closer look at Sonny Liston's career reveals that other than losing a decision to Marty Marshall in his eighth pro bout, which he avenged twice, Liston totally went through the division. His defeats by Ali were later in his career and he was an old man by the time Leotis Martin beat him.
Next is Joe Frazier, whom I have no doubt some will say I have ranked too high. In my opinion, Frazier is admonished too harshly for his defeats by Foreman. Those that say Frazier couldn't fight big punchers basically mean Foreman! Foreman is the best puncher in heavyweight history. On top of that, from a style standpoint, Frazier is made for Foreman, and Foreman is the only fighter to walk through Frazier. Of the ten times Frazier's been down, eight are by the sledgehammer fist of Big George. Frazier never lost to any fighter he shouldn't have. Other than Marciano, no other fighter on this list can say that.
It also must be pointed out that Frazier gave Ali life and death all three times they fought, and on the night of March 8th, 1971 Frazier gave boxing one of the greatest performances by any heavyweight ever, winning the biggest fight in boxing history. I rated Frazier above Marciano mainly because I just can't envision a fighter smaller than Joe beating him, and Marciano would be more prone to getting cut had they fought. However, I go back and forth on Frazier and Marciano, on another day I could easily rate Rocky over Joe. [details]
Starting around the Joe Louis era the film and audio quality improved tremendously. There is plenty of good film available on the fighters from Louis forward, and I feel that it's more than adequate to get a good feel for the fighters. Plus, Louis was the new wave of fighter, way ahead of his time.
Louis & Ali
In this writer's opinion, Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali are at the top of boxing's heavyweight Mount Rushmore. I am very confident that both of them would defeat all the fighters on this list. Ali and Louis have too many weapons and skills for the other fighters, and they are much more resourceful and complete. So, why do I have Ali over Louis? Most of the time when great fighters face each other, it very often comes down to styles. In a Louis-Ali match up, the style advantage goes to Ali. Other than Billy Conn, and Jersey Joe Walcott, most of Louis' opponents went to him, which played perfectly into his style. Fighters who moved away or circled caused him some difficulty.
Ali's overall speed and movement would make it very difficult for Louis to catch him to where he could unload his precision combinations in order to do the damage he would need to slow Ali. On the other hand, Louis fights a style that Ali is accustomed to facing. Louis would pressure him but not like Frazier or Foreman did, trying to force Ali to react when he didn't want to.
Louis applied more subtle pressure, which is something Ali could handle and exploit, and Louis didn't change for any fighter. Louis would just bide his time waiting for Ali to make a mistake, instead of trying to force him into making one like Frazier and Foreman did. This favors Ali. The bottom line is I take Ali over Louis mainly because Louis would have to change and adjust his fighting style and posture and Ali wouldn't. Another reason I favor Ali over Louis is that he beat better fighters. In Liston, Frazier and Foreman, Ali beat three fighters who make almost everyone's all-time heavyweight top ten ranking. In the case of Frazier and Foreman, Ali defeated them after his 43 month exile, while they were in their respective prime. Ali also is the only heavyweight champion in history whose opponents cannot be questioned, even by the harshest critics. One final thought on Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali, it is my firm belief that both of them are plenty big enough to more than handle the "so-called" giant heavyweight's fighting today. Both Louis and Ali defeated fighters as big or bigger than those currently fighting today. When reviewing both of their career's, it's quite obvious that both of them were more troubled by smaller and quicker fighters opposed to the bigger hulking type ponderous fighters of today.
Below are my heavyweight rankings in order from Joe Louis through Lennox Lewis. From number three George Foreman on, I give my scenario on how I see a match up involving Louis & Ali versus the fighters ranked 3 through 10.
How I Rated the Fighters
I'm a believer in head-to-head, and feel it carries much weight when rating one fighter over another. For me to rate Fighter A over Fighter B, I must feel strongly that A would've defeated B had they confronted each other on their best night. I also think length of title reign can sometimes be misleading. For example, Liston made only one title defense and Foreman only made two. However, both of their title tenures were cut short because they fought during the Ali era. Had Ali not been around, Liston could have remained champ through 1970, and Foreman could have reigned champ from 1973 into the 1990's. Remember, Foreman did capture the title a second time in November of 1994, and that was after a ten-year ring absence.
I ranked George Foreman very high for the fact he was the best puncher in heavyweight history, and had he not lost to Ali, he may have never been beaten. A closer look at Sonny Liston's career reveals that other than losing a decision to Marty Marshall in his eighth pro bout, which he avenged twice, Liston totally went through the division. His defeats by Ali were later in his career and he was an old man by the time Leotis Martin beat him.
Next is Joe Frazier, whom I have no doubt some will say I have ranked too high. In my opinion, Frazier is admonished too harshly for his defeats by Foreman. Those that say Frazier couldn't fight big punchers basically mean Foreman! Foreman is the best puncher in heavyweight history. On top of that, from a style standpoint, Frazier is made for Foreman, and Foreman is the only fighter to walk through Frazier. Of the ten times Frazier's been down, eight are by the sledgehammer fist of Big George. Frazier never lost to any fighter he shouldn't have. Other than Marciano, no other fighter on this list can say that.
It also must be pointed out that Frazier gave Ali life and death all three times they fought, and on the night of March 8th, 1971 Frazier gave boxing one of the greatest performances by any heavyweight ever, winning the biggest fight in boxing history. I rated Frazier above Marciano mainly because I just can't envision a fighter smaller than Joe beating him, and Marciano would be more prone to getting cut had they fought. However, I go back and forth on Frazier and Marciano, on another day I could easily rate Rocky over Joe. [details]
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