Comments Thread For: George Groves Backs Oleksandr Usyk To Beat Tyson Fury, Explains Why

[elfag]

Fury gasses if he doesn't control the pace. If he's unable to tie Usyk up and lean on him for extended periods, he WILL gas.

Hes never gassed in 34 fights. If he is fighting Usyk at a distance he is throwing arm punches for speed which also preserves stamina. this is the style he used to fight in and he adjusted his style after wilder 2. He is so much larger than Usyk that arm punches are still an effective deterrent

[_Rexy_]

Hes never gassed in 34 fights. If he is fighting Usyk at a distance he is throwing arm punches for speed which also preserves stamina. this is the style he used to fight in and he adjusted his style after wilder 2. He is so much larger than Usyk that arm punches are still an effective deterrent

I’m fully aware of his old style. I actually preferred it. Vegas judges didn’t, unfortunately.

If he can go back to that style, I see it more effective than trying to walk Usyk down

[NEETzschean]

Fury was 247 against Wlad, which was peak "riddler", if you know what I mean, and he was 277 in the 3rd Wilder fight.

He looked huge at the presser with Ngannou and if the Usyk fight happens in December, that's only 3 months away.

You didn't say Wlad, you said Cunningham. And he was sub-265 lbs against Whyte, which is more recent than Wilder 3. So I maintain that he's not going to be 284+ lbs, as your first comment effectively stated.

I also doubt he was 247 lbs against Wlad. Fury accused Wlad's team of manipulating the scales and said he was about 256 lbs. If he's correct (and he probably is: there were antics with the gloves and the ring surface from K2) then you're overestimating the weight gain. He was also 260 lbs and allegedly 264 lbs against Hammer and Chisora 2 in his previous fights where he was in shape and very slick, so the idea that he lost 1+ stone for Wlad is absurd to me.

It won't happen in December for a start, Usyk won't fight within 4 months of Dubois. And Fury always looks fatter than he is due to the 10 stone weight loss, his body will always look worse over time due to his age as well. So while he may have looked 320, he was probably more like 290. Some thought he was extremely overweight going into the Whyte fight, when he was actually only marginally heavier than he was against Schwarz under Davison 3 years prior. He'll be 260's-low 270's when the fight happens next Feb-Mar.

[kafkod]

You didn't say Wlad, you said Cunningham. And he was sub-265 lbs against Whyte, which is more recent than Wilder 3. So I maintain that he's not going to be 284+ lbs, as your first comment effectively stated.

I also doubt he was 247 lbs against Wlad. Fury accused Wlad's team of manipulating the scales and said he was about 256 lbs. If he's correct (and he probably is: there were antics with the gloves and the ring surface from K2) then you're overestimating the weight gain. He was also 260 lbs and allegedly 264 lbs against Hammer and Chisora 2 in his previous fights where he was in shape and very slick, so the idea that he lost 1+ stone for Wlad is absurd to me.

It won't happen in December for a start, Usyk won't fight within 4 months of Dubois. And Fury always looks fatter than he is due to the 10 stone weight loss, his body will always look worse over time due to his age as well. So while he may have looked 320, he was probably more like 290. Some thought he was extremely overweight going into the Whyte fight, when he was actually only marginally heavier than he was against Schwarz under Davison 3 years prior. He'll be 260's-low 270's when the fight happens next Feb-Mar.

"You didn't say Wlad, you said Cunningham" ...

I know, which is why why I updated what I said after checking the weights.

Whatever Fury weighs in at if he fights Usyk, he will be considerably heavier than Usyk and also considerably heavier than he was when he beat Wlad. And that extra weight will give Usyk advantages he probably wouldn't have had if he was fighting the 2015 version of Fury.

[PRINCEKOOL]

"You didn't say Wlad, you said Cunningham" ...

I know, which is why why I updated what I said after checking the weights.

Whatever Fury weighs in at if he fights Usyk, he will be considerably heavier than Usyk and also considerably heavier than he was when he beat Wlad. And that extra weight will give Usyk advantages he probably wouldn't have had if he was fighting the 2015 version of Fury.

Fury when he first came back after his exodus, tried to duplicate his former condition and style 'The Riddler, the style most associated with his rise under Peter Fury'.

Fury done a pretty good job, but not good enough. Fury weighed in at 256 pounds vs Wilder, was backed up all night and decked twice once badly.

Fury weighed in at 254 pounds vs Wallin 'He was battered and busted up real good'.

Fury for a period of time leading up to the Kiltschko fight, was not getting found inside the ring 'And even Kiltschko himself who was a great athlete, and skill for skill many levels above Wilder and Wallin was unable to find Fury inside the ring'.

Fury for the Wilder II fight, altered his style and embraced putting on more mass or weight. Fury has not shown the evidence since his comeback, that he can out box another elite level boxer with his long range to mid-range game 'Out boxing Whyte and Chisora, is not the same challenge as fighting Usyk'.

Many fighters active today would easily take rounds off both Whyte and Chisora, Joshua himself would most likely win 95% of the rounds against both fighters.

I don't think Fury while training under Sugar Hill Steward, is going to be a major threat to Usyk from Mid-Long range 'Not in the way the media and his fans try to make out'.

Fury for me has to impose his greater inside game and rough house tactics, and keep the fight there 'If he can do that, he may well win the fight'.

If Fury cannot do this? The fight action will be similar to Joshua vs Usyk I & II 'Fury will potentially lose the fights in a very similar fashion, fatiguing and making unforced errors'.

Fury could actually lose the fight is worst fashion than Joshua, due to not being as technical sound or fundamental correct 'Fury in any fight at a good pace, has historically always made unforced errors. Unforced errors that I have not really seen other top elite level fighters do, Fury is a innately clumsy fighter'.

Fury vs Wilder III, was a great fight in terms of passion and aggression 'But skill for skill, it was not on the same level as Joshua vs Usyk I & II'. Both fighters in Wilder and Fury from round 2 - 3 on wards were fatigued and making unforced errors, Fury was decked firstly by him out of nowhere suddenly deciding to square up to Wilder as if he was going to open the front door to his house 'Then BAM'.

Joshua lost vs Usyk not due to him making any glaring technical mistakes, he quite simply lose due to just ever so slightly not having the endurance levels of Usyk 'And Uysk being able to anticipate, react and perform actions at higher speeds'.

Fury will lose the fight the same way vs Usyk if he tries to out box him from mid-long range 'The Riddler version of Fury, may have been able to beat Usyk in this manner. But this Kronk Fury, is going to have a difficult time with these tactics in my opinion'.

Note: Apparently the fight has been agreed, and the projected fight date is for December. Preparation may be where Fury ether wins or loses this fight, does he stick with his recent conditioning and form? Or does he attempt to try and bring back 'The Riddler'? Me personally if Fury wanted to really bring back 'The Riddler' he would have to be training under Peter Fury.

During the build up to Wilder II, Fury in a interview with Gareth A Davies and stated 'That he had altered his training, and stated that he was doing too much road work'. I just don't think Fury wants to train in the manner and style, like he was under Peter Fury 'And depending on how you perceive that altercation, it may have been the correct decision for him and his career'.

Because Fury when he first comeback, was trying to out box fighters that were nowhere near Kiltschko's level 'And he was still being decked and busted up real good'.

Stylistically this version of Fury is a easier match up for Usyk than 'The Riddler'. And Fury to his credit is good at reading a fight, on some level he will know this 'That is why it will be interesting how Fury prepares for this fight'.

The actual timing of this fight, I don't think is what Tyson Fury would of wanted 'Fury in my opinion has been backed into this situation and fight, happening now'.

But Team Fury may actually find a way to prolong the fight negotiations, that is clear now 'With all the comments that are coming out' etc.

[kafkod]

Fury when he first came back after his exodus, tried to duplicate his former condition and style 'The Riddler, the style most associated with his rise under Peter Fury'.

Fury done a pretty good job, but not good enough. Fury weighed in at 256 pounds vs Wilder, was backed up all night and decked twice once badly.

Fury weighed in at 254 pounds vs Wallin 'He was battered and busted up real good'.

Fury for a period of time leading up to the Kiltschko fight, was not getting found inside the ring 'And even Kiltschko himself who was a great athlete, and skill for skill many levels above Wilder and Wallin was unable to find Fury inside the ring'.

Fury for the Wilder II fight, altered his style and embraced putting on more mass or weight. Fury has not shown the evidence since his comeback, that he can out box another elite level boxer with his long range to mid-range game 'Out boxing Whyte and Chisora, is not the same challenge as fighting Usyk'.

Many fighters active today would easily take rounds off both Whyte and Chisora, Joshua himself would most likely win 95% of the rounds against both fighters.

I don't think Fury while training under Sugar Hill Steward, is going to be a major threat to Usyk from Mid-Long range 'Not in the way the media and his fans try to make out'.

Fury for me has to impose his greater inside game and rough house tactics, and keep the fight there 'If he can do that, he may well win the fight'.

If Fury cannot do this? The fight action will be similar to Joshua vs Usyk I & II 'Fury will potentially lose the fights in a very similar fashion, fatiguing and making unforced errors'.

Fury could actually lose the fight is worst fashion than Joshua, due to not being as technical sound or fundamental correct 'Fury in any fight at a good pace, has historically always made unforced errors. Unforced errors that I have not really seen other top elite level fighters do, Fury is a innately clumsy fighter'.

Fury vs Wilder III, was a great fight in terms of passion and aggression 'But skill for skill, it was not on the same level as Joshua vs Usyk I & II'. Both fighters in Wilder and Fury from round 2 - 3 on wards were fatigued and making unforced errors, Fury was decked firstly by him out of nowhere suddenly deciding to square up to Wilder as if he was going to open the front door to his house 'Then BAM'.

Joshua lost vs Usyk not due to him making any glaring technical mistakes, he quite simply lose due to just ever so slightly not having the endurance levels of Usyk 'And Uysk being able to anticipate, react and perform actions at higher speeds'.

Fury will lose the fight the same way vs Usyk if he tries to out box him from mid-long range 'The Riddler version of Fury, may have been able to beat Usyk in this manner. But this Kronk Fury, is going to have a difficult time with these tactics in my opinion'.

Note: Apparently the fight has been agreed, and the projected fight date is for December. Preparation may be where Fury ether wins or loses this fight, does he stick with his recent conditioning and form? Or does he attempt to try and bring back 'The Riddler'? Me personally if Fury wanted to really bring back 'The Riddler' he would have to be training under Peter Fury.

During the build up to Wilder II, Fury in a interview with Gareth A Davies and stated 'That he had altered his training, and stated that he was doing too much road work'. I just don't think Fury wants to train in the manner and style, like he was under Peter Fury 'And depending on how you perceive that altercation, it may have been the correct decision for him and his career'.

Because Fury when he first comeback, was trying to out box fighters that were nowhere near Kiltschko's level 'And he was still being decked and busted up real good'.

Stylistically this version of Fury is a easier match up for Usyk than 'The Riddler'. And Fury to his credit is good at reading a fight, on some level he will know this 'That is why it will be interesting how Fury prepares for this fight'.

The actual timing of this fight, I don't think is what Tyson Fury would of wanted 'Fury in my opinion has been backed into this situation and fight, happening now'.

But Team Fury may actually find a way to prolong the fight negotiations, that is clear now 'With all the comments that are coming out' etc.

"Fury will lose the fight the same way vs Usyk if he tries to out box him from mid-long range 'The Riddler version of Fury, may have been able to beat Usyk in this manner. But this Kronk Fury, is going to have a difficult time with these tactics in my opinion'."

I agree with this. The only way Fury beats Usyk is to impose his size up close and throw plenty of body shots. That's why I think the refereeing will be critical. If Fury is allowed to get away with low/borderline body punches and clinching, mauling and leaning on the inside, then Usyk is in for a very rough ride. If the ref insists on "keeping it clean", I think Usyk will do the same kind of job on Fury that he did on AJ, in both their fights.

"Note: Apparently the fight has been agreed, and the projected fight date is for December. Preparation may be where Fury ether wins or loses this fight, does he stick with his recent conditioning and form? Or does he attempt to try and bring back 'The Riddler'? Me personally if Fury wanted to really bring back 'The Riddler' he would have to be training under Peter Fury."

Fury himself has said that the Tyson Fury who beat Wlad is gone and he won't be coming back. He can't get himself into the kind of condition needed to fight like that any more. So we won't be seeing The Riddler against Usyk.

[NEETzschean]

"You didn't say Wlad, you said Cunningham" ...

I know, which is why why I updated what I said after checking the weights.

Whatever Fury weighs in at if he fights Usyk, he will be considerably heavier than Usyk and also considerably heavier than he was when he beat Wlad. And that extra weight will give Usyk advantages he probably wouldn't have had if he was fighting the 2015 version of Fury.

Being 10-15 lbs heavier has pros and cons, just as being 8 years older has pros and cons. This isn't 2015, Usyk wasn't available to fight Fury until 2023 at the earliest due to his amateur career, cruiser career and chasing AJ for a few years. I imagine that 2024 221 lbs 37 year old Usyk won't be as fast as the 2013 WSB version who weighed 207-213 lbs, it is what it is. They've both agreed to fight so presumably they both believe they can/will win with their attributes as it stands.

[AmpMcv]

Dubios stopped Usyk with a bodyshot, facts.

That is in fact, not a fact. You made that up.

[Roberto Vasquez]

Cunningham was 10 years ago. Tyson has clearly improved and developed new techniques in the last 10 years.

What with his 2 title defences? and 2 top-10 opponents in 7-8 years? Guy went the distance with Pianeta who was top-70 at best and struggled with the only half-decent boxer he fought in Wallin

[Roberto Vasquez]

Do you think Fury has a higher Vo2max than Usyk? Do you think Fury has a greater power to weight ratio than Usyk? Do you think he has more intramuscular co-ordination than Usyk? Do you think Fury is more explosive? Do you think he has greater overall speed? The honest answer to all of these questions is no, NO Tyson Fury does have a higher level of fitness in any one of these area's 'I am almost certain of this'.

All I see is people who constantly keep ****ing on about Fury's weight and dimensions 'These are cliche observations, and there is more to sporting performance and fighting than those attributes'.

If people are basing their entire theory on Tyson Fury winning this fight vs Usyk 'Just based off those two cliche observations, then their theories are going to be taken apart'.

I am not saying that Tyson Fury is not going to win, but I have already devised my own theories on how Fury can win 'And contrary to universal boxing opinion, I don't think Tyson Fury has a broad spectrum of tactics he can use to win vs Usyk.

I don't believe that Fury at this stage of his career can out box Usyk from long range, Fury is not 246-248 pounds anymore 'Fury tried to bring back the Riddler when he first came back to the game. Fury tried his best to duplicate his former condition and form, which he had while training under Peter Fury. And to a certain extent Fury done a satisfactory job, but it just was just not good enough 'Fighters breach his defenses and find him inside the ring, fighters that skill for skill were nowhere near the level of Wladimir Kiltschko'.

Tyson Fury was effectively knocked out by Deontay Wilder in their first fight, and Fury was then battered and busted up real good vs Wallin 'It was then after these fights on the eve of Wilder II, did Fury decide to alter his style and revert back to type'.

And ever since Fury has been fighting with this some say Kronk Fury style, which consist of 'Basis long range, to mid-range game, main emphasis on inside game and rough house tactics'.

If Tyson Fury cannot impose his inside game on Usyk, if he cannot dominate and keep the fight within this area? Two things are according to my observation and theories are going to happen 1: Fury will be dropping rounds to Usyk in a very similar way to how Joshua was. 2: Fury will struggle with the pace of the fight, and as he does in all of his fights at a decent pace? Fury will start producing unforced errors' Fury did this vs Wilder, he did it vs Wallin, Fury has done this throughout his entire career 'Fury is a innately clumsy fighter'.

The difference between Joshua and Fury is 'Joshua may not be a naturally gifted fighter like Fury. But technically Joshua in terms of pure boxing, is s more technically correct and fundamentally sound boxer than Tyson Fury. In Joshua's two fights with Usyk, skill for skill Joshua vs Uysk I & II are the highest level pure boxing matches that have taken place in the Heavyweight division over this past decade.

Skill for skill there have been no Heavyweight match ups, that rival the level of action skill for skill that was displayed during Joshua vs Usyk I & II 'In regards of pure boxing from Mid-Long range game'.

Neither fighter was making that many or very few unforced errors, Joshua quite simply just lost both fights due to Usyk's superior endurance and in my opinion faster operational speed.

Great snooker players, have the ability to see 2-3 cues ahead into the future of the game 'And with this perception, they anticipate moves'. Great boxers break down the action of the fight in the same manner, they are not 100% reacting inside the ring they are anticipating and then performing moves before the other fighter has even produced the action'.

That is the type of fighter Joshua encountered in Usyk 'And that is why nobody on this forum, can make the claim that Joshua is not a capable boxer. Joshua had two fights with Usyk, and both the fights over 24 rounds were competitive'.

Anthony Joshua is the most proven pure boxer within the Heavyweight division outside of Fury and Uyskk.

Note: But what people overlook when it comes to Tyson Fury, is that he has not actual fought at elite level skill for skill in terms of pure boxing since Wladimir Kiltschko 'And that was 7-8 years ago'. Fury since then has pretty much taken on fights that were all stylistically easy fights for him, Wilder apart from his power is not a great boxer and Fury out weighed him on average by 40 pounds, Whyte could hardly move and he is not a great boxer, and a Semi-retire Chisora again these fights are not really testing or preparing Fury in m opinion 'Especially his last two fights'.

Were as in comparison, Usyk has fought a super heavyweight twice in Anthony Joshua 'Joshua is a capable proven boxer, a technically fundamentally sound boxer who hits with more power than Fury'.

Usyk overall in his career is more experienced at fighting at elite level skill for skill, and at Heavyweight he has been fighting at a level closer to Fury levels 'Fury has not been fighting at a level which has any correlation to Usyk, Fury in my observation has fought no fighters that prepare him for Uysk'.

I have not picked a winner between Fury & Uysk. but I am not one of these people who believe it is just a straight forward fight for Fury 'Not this version of Fury on current known form' etc.

Note: I am not having a go at you, it was just that YOUR post sparked some idea's within me. I am also not devaluing Deontay Wilder as a fighter, I rate him extremely highly within this era of Heavyweights 'But skill for skill Wilder is not a elite level boxer in terms of pure boxing' etc.

AJ was an ideal opponent for Usyk because AJ is a very good actual boxer (he has a poor chin so he has to be). But when you got someone who can outbox you and take your shots you are in trouble. No one else in the division has outboxed AJ. Usyk took away AJ's best point. You can also look at Usyk/CHisora an Usyk/Wetherspoon and Usyk/Dubois and see a guy who struggled a little against lower-ranked big guys

Fury knows what strategy to use against who. That is what he is good at e.g. the way he moved forward against Wilder in the 2nd fight because he knew he couldn't fight going backwards. So no doubt he will use his size against Usyk. He has those advantages. But I think Usyk is very dangerous for him and given Fury is not fighting top guys most of the his career he could be in real trouble against Usyk. Usyk has the potenntial to take away Fury's key advantages like he did to AJ. It's just a question of whether Fury can adapt. Fury is a guy who thinks a lot so he could do.

But given Fury is clearly scared of Usyk, That doesn't bode well for his chances. Normally I would say this is 55/45 fight in Fury's favor. But I see Fury as possibly being mentally weak (clearly scared of both Usyk and AJ) so I will go 50/50 at the moment