Zhang would TORTURE Wilder

[daggum]

These are the fights in which the 7 best Heavyweights of the 2015 -2023 era have met, in chronological order, to frame the era for you and other fans. The list should be twice as big. Failure to meet the best is a massive problem.

Try being polite if possible.

yeah but your framing is based on nothing. the best heavyweights? you made that up. if you look at the ring top 5 from 2015 till now wilder fought ortiz and fury and thats all and fury wasnt even in the top 5 when they first fought. did wilder fight klitschko? no. joshua did. did he fight pulev? no joshua did. did he fight povetkin? no joshua did. did he fight parker? no joshua did. did he fight whyte? no joshua did. did he fight usyk? no joshua did. did he fight ruiz? no joshua did. did he fight joyce? no. did he fight joshua? no. will he fight zhang who is now in the top 5? prob not. you see the pattern? thats why its hilarious you think wilder was part of some secret circle of champions when he was on the outside the whole time, and the one time he tried to get inside by cherry picking an out of shape crappy fury(his words) he lost! joshua meanwhile has been steadily taking on good opponents the whole time and you constantly disparage him for losing even though he's lost the same as wilder but fought against much better competition.

[Willow The Wisp]

yeah but your framing is based on nothing. the best heavyweights? you made that up. if you look at the ring top 5 from 2015 till now wilder fought ortiz and fury and thats all and fury wasnt even in the top 5 when they first fought. did wilder fight klitschko? no. joshua did. did he fight pulev? no joshua did. did he fight povetkin? no joshua did. did he fight parker? no joshua did. did he fight whyte? no joshua did. did he fight usyk? no joshua did. did he fight ruiz? no joshua did. did he fight joyce? no. did he fight joshua? no. will he fight zhang who is now in the top 5? prob not. you see the pattern? thats why its hilarious you think wilder was part of some secret circle of champions when he was on the outside the whole time, and the one time he tried to get inside by cherry picking an out of shape crappy fury(his words) he lost! joshua meanwhile has been steadily taking on good opponents the whole time and you constantly disparage him for losing even though he's lost the same as wilder but fought against much better competition.

I understand. I think that A.J. did some very, very fine work in his career. The disparaging remarks regarding his losses come strictly from weaklings who have never boxed.

Would I bet my life on him should he and Wilder hook up in 2024 to settle the issue as to who is better?

I would not. I beleive that Wilder has more power, more punch resistance and more fighting heart. That's simply my opinion, and my pick is purely a guess.

I rank Wilder above Joshua, and the two men who trounced him during his career. That two, is only opinion, until they fight.

The supposition that Joshua "fought against much better competition" is subject to debate. Three Fury's and two Ortiz 's represents better opponents than retired Wladimir Klitschko, end of career version of Povetkin, early career Whyte and the well hyped Parker, I assert here. But even if one were to concede that A.J. was put in tougher, and I'm even willing to, it isn't by nearly as much as you beleive, and not enough by half to offset the stark and telling difference in the way the two handled extreme duress against Ruiz I and Fury II & III, respectively.

However, I respect always the opinion of others.

I'd love to see them fight.

If they do, A.J. will finally have his chance to compete against one of the other Three Kings of his era, who were suppost to fight a round-robbin to settle their claims (and those of their respective fans) before Joshua became undone by massive underdogs to disrupt the plan.

As for Fury and Wilder? Fortunately they were able to hold up their end in defining the era.

[daggum]

I understand. I think that A.J. did some very, very fine work in his career. The disparaging remarks regarding his losses come strictly from weaklings who have never boxed.

Would I bet my life on him should he and Wilder hook up in 2024 to settle the issue as to who is better?

I would not. I beleive that Wilder has more power, more punch resistance and more fighting heart. That's simply my opinion, and my pick is purely a guess.

I rank Wilder above Joshua, and the two men who trounced him during his career. That two, is only opinion, until they fight.

The supposition that Joshua "fought against much better competition" is subject to debate. Three Fury's and two Ortiz 's represents better opponents than retired Wladimir Klitschko, end of career version of Povetkin, early career Whyte and the well hyped Parker, I assert here. But even if one were to concede that A.J. was put in tougher, and I'm even willing to, it isn't by nearly as much as you beleive, and not enough by half to offset the stark and telling difference in the way the two handled extreme duress against Ruiz I and Fury II & III, respectively.

However, I respect always the opinion of others.

I'd love to see them fight.

If they do, A.J. will finally have his chance to compete against one of the other Three Kings of his era, who were suppost to fight a round-robbin to settle their claims (and those of their respective fans) before Joshua became undone by massive underdogs to disrupt the plan.

As for Fury and Wilder? Fortunately they were able to hold up their end in defining the era.

you are really going to debate wilders resume against joshuas?

you think ortiz is better than klitschko? please tell me the amazing things ortiz has done in his career............................we will be waiting here a long time. his only notable win jennings is a guy klitschko easily beat 2 years before the joshua fight so what are you talking about? wilder fought ortiz 3 and a half years after ortiz beat jennings by the way just for comparison. klitschko lost to fury by decision therefore hes not good anymore? is that your argument? oh wait wilder got smashed and ko'd twice by fury oops! guess wilder was shot too!

and three losses to fury is better than beating a ton of good fighters hmmm ok. if joshua loses to fury 4 times does that make joshua better than wilder? get real.

end of career povetkin? he was in the top 5 at the time and he knocked out a top 5 guy after losing to joshua. that right there is better than your beloved ortiz. has ortiz beaten anyone after losing to wilder...oh no he lost to ruiz, a guy joshua beat. oops!!!

early career whyte? you mean undefeated? now being undefeated is a bad thing yet when wilder fights ortiz, ORTIZ IS UNDEFEATED!

the hyped up parker? parker beat ruiz did he not?and ruiz beat your beloved ortiz did he not? im still waiting on all the great wins ortiz has by the way...this is what happens when you put so much stock in one fighter, you could be wrong, especially when his resume has more holes than swiss cheese. maybe parker isnt that great you are right, but guess what joshua has a bunch more guys that are just as good or better. wilder does not.

there is a huge disparity in resumes. huge. its not even close.

wilder handled duress so well when he was ko'd twice? you just liked the way wilder was battered all over the ring until being stopped? that impressed you? oh wait you want to see someone handle extreme duress and come back to win? check out joshua vs klitschko. joshua is dropped hard against a huge puncher unlike fury and he comes back to win! you would like that one. guess you forgot to factor that into things what a shocker!

[fifth_root]

Everybody has a night off, casual.

I have bad news for you - calling me casual makes you no expert, but a simple clown.

Scoring a draw against a total douche like Jerry is more than a "night off".

if joyce is overhyped what is wilder? joyce's resume is much better. hes beaten parker, dubois, and jennings to wilders ortiz and stiverne. zhang is certainly overrated at the moment but beating joyce is still a good win.

I never said Wilder isn't overhyped. They both are and now all of the three are.

Yes, beating Joyce is a good win, but nothing more than that. Some people already put Zhang beating practically everyone in the division because of it.

[BigBobArum]

It would definitely be a tough, close fight but Wilder is a WARRIOR as shown in his trilogy against Fury and especially in the last fight where he pushed Tyson farther than any fighter has before. Therefore, I’d favour him given that he’s the harder puncher and has shown his ability to get up off the canvas and continue fighting multiple times.

[dan-b]

I understand. I think that A.J. did some very, very fine work in his career. The disparaging remarks regarding his losses come strictly from weaklings who have never boxed.

Would I bet my life on him should he and Wilder hook up in 2024 to settle the issue as to who is better?

I would not. I beleive that Wilder has more power, more punch resistance and more fighting heart. That's simply my opinion, and my pick is purely a guess.

I rank Wilder above Joshua, and the two men who trounced him during his career. That two, is only opinion, until they fight.

The supposition that Joshua "fought against much better competition" is subject to debate. Three Fury's and two Ortiz 's represents better opponents than retired Wladimir Klitschko, end of career version of Povetkin, early career Whyte and the well hyped Parker, I assert here. But even if one were to concede that A.J. was put in tougher, and I'm even willing to, it isn't by nearly as much as you beleive, and not enough by half to offset the stark and telling difference in the way the two handled extreme duress against Ruiz I and Fury II & III, respectively.

However, I respect always the opinion of others.

I'd love to see them fight.

If they do, A.J. will finally have his chance to compete against one of the other Three Kings of his era, who were suppost to fight a round-robbin to settle their claims (and those of their respective fans) before Joshua became undone by massive underdogs to disrupt the plan.

As for Fury and Wilder? Fortunately they were able to hold up their end in defining the era.

The only heavyweight fight that matters is Fury - Usyk. It's extremely frustrating it's not happening, as is Fury's opponent selection for his previous and next fight. The only people I see defending this are internet hero worshippers who think money is all that matters in life (even when it's someone else getting it!).

[Dr. Z]

Wilder will get battered.

Wilder is a glass jawed, pin legged fraud. He has not won a fight over a contender in years. He beat set up guys that are " paid " to lose " and 40 or older. Prove me wrong.

[Willow The Wisp]

you are really going to debate wilders resume against joshuas?

you think ortiz is better than klitschko? please tell me the amazing things ortiz has done in his career............................we will be waiting here a long time. his only notable win jennings is a guy klitschko easily beat 2 years before the joshua fight so what are you talking about? wilder fought ortiz 3 and a half years after ortiz beat jennings by the way just for comparison. klitschko lost to fury by decision therefore hes not good anymore? is that your argument? oh wait wilder got smashed and ko'd twice by fury oops! guess wilder was shot too!

and three losses to fury is better than beating a ton of good fighters hmmm ok. if joshua loses to fury 4 times does that make joshua better than wilder? get real.

end of career povetkin? he was in the top 5 at the time and he knocked out a top 5 guy after losing to joshua. that right there is better than your beloved ortiz. has ortiz beaten anyone after losing to wilder...oh no he lost to ruiz, a guy joshua beat. oops!!!

early career whyte? you mean undefeated? now being undefeated is a bad thing yet when wilder fights ortiz, ORTIZ IS UNDEFEATED!

the hyped up parker? parker beat ruiz did he not?and ruiz beat your beloved ortiz did he not? im still waiting on all the great wins ortiz has by the way...this is what happens when you put so much stock in one fighter, you could be wrong, especially when his resume has more holes than swiss cheese. maybe parker isnt that great you are right, but guess what joshua has a bunch more guys that are just as good or better. wilder does not.

there is a huge disparity in resumes. huge. its not even close.

wilder handled duress so well when he was ko'd twice? you just liked the way wilder was battered all over the ring until being stopped? that impressed you? oh wait you want to see someone handle extreme duress and come back to win? check out joshua vs klitschko. joshua is dropped hard against a huge puncher unlike fury and he comes back to win! you would like that one. guess you forgot to factor that into things what a shocker!

I love that passion!!!

And some solid points made here as well! No doubt.
But there are more holes in your argument as a whole than a regulation golf course .

Perhaps they'll fight. Then, we'll both get onto the same tier of understanding.


Remember too, as it went unmentioned; that Luis Ortiz blew away the man from whom A.J. won his claim as champion, Charles Martin.

[PRINCEKOOL]

The WBC is completely behind Tyson Fury.

• He ended the Klitschko era via comprehensively outfighting the former champion.

• He has won ALL of the major sanctioning body belts which no one has been able to do since Lennox Lewis, and he has never lost them.

• He is the Linial Heavyweight Champion of the World, the oldest and most widely recognized championship in sports.

• He is about to swallow the competing sport of MMA whole by destroying one of their greatest champions under the only rules that hold meaning as determined by the arbitration of history.

• He has thrice fought and twice beaten the 2nd best heavyweight of his era. A man who nobody else has beaten and nobody else has been willing to fight.

• He remains undefeated after sitting atop the flagship division after 8 years; a feat that Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis and the Klitschko brothers failed to match.

Why wouldn't the WBC support him?

Why wouldn't you????

Joshua blew his chance at a head on collision with Fury by losing THREE times to comparative nobodies.

Usyk was extremely fortunate to get past Dubois, only done through the dubious ref's call, and has effectively derailed his shot at the Real world title; or at a minimum, reducing the urgency.

In the Days of WBA vs. WBC, a title unification fight was a big deal, and boxing fans at that time were aware that the PURPOSE of having a champion was to designate ONE individual.

But 50 years of nonsensical abuse by Los Banditos, stripped titles, bestowing of titles, the proliferation of needless weight classes and ancillary titles; Have rendered the concept of unification in "The five belt era" fairly absurd.

So reluctant warrior Fury pops Usyk with a body shot and gains 4 belts he already owns and never lost.

The blogger level journalists are spinning tales and history just rolls it's eyes.

To me? I want to see Fury vs. Joshua and Usyk very badly; but I imagine that Ngannou for the baddest man (sans kicking and bum touching) title and Zhang in China with a billion eyes on it (more than the Superbowl) are the more important fights, all things considered.

Fury did not put a stop to the Kiltschko era completely 'Winning one fight over the distance, and then not re-matching a Champion of all most 10 years. Is not how you stop a Heavyweight reign'.

What defenses did Tyson Fury make of those titles he won back in 2015? None, unfortunately 'But that win is a great win in terms of historical magnitude for Tyson Fury'.

Wladimir Kiltschko did not retire after fighting Tyson Fury, and he initiated a rematch 'Fury kept on pulling out of the scheduled rematch unfortunately, and 17 months later Kiltschko after enduring 3 back to back training camps fought Joshua 'It was Anthony Joshua who then beat up and knocked out Wladimir Kiltschko in the greatest Heavyweight title fight of the past 25 years'.

This was when officially Heavyweight Boxing enter into a new era 'Of course it was Tyson Fury who's win vs Kiltschko was the catalytic win, but it was then Joshua who unequivocally ordained a new era in Heavyweight boxing'.

When Prince Naseem Hamed lost to Antonio Barrera, I would estimate that he as a bigger more proven all-time great fighter than Tyson Fury is now 'Pretty much on every single statistic Prince Naseem Hamed was greater fighter than Tyson Fury'.

Prince Naseem Hamed when he invaded america, was a bigger fighter than Tyson Fury 'Prince Naseem Hamed's fights were bigger in terms of events, and skill for skill as a fighter he was miles more influential'.

Oleksandr Usyk during the build up to his last fight vs Dubois, in interview stated 'That he was inspired by Prince Naseem Hamed as a amateur boxer, and would attempt to learn and practice his boxing moves away from his coach. And many of his boxing team mates were also inspired to this level by Prince Naseem Hamed'.

Very few amateur fighters across the entire World in boxing gyms 'Amateurs boxers are not watching Tyson Fury and trying to duplicate his boxing style. Fury is has not been that type of fighter, has not had that type of impact. Fury is not Mike Tyson, Roy Jones Junior or Muhammad Ali he is not statistically or in terms of influence on their level.

But in the minds of Hardcore Fury fans, they genuinely believe that he is.

Note: The reason why, I am bringing Prince Naseem Hamed up is because? Greater unbeaten fighters than Tyson Fury have lost fights, and people have switched up on them real quick.

If you have watched boxing for many years, you will understand objectively that fighters must be fighting at a level 'Especially Champions'. So hardcore Fury fans can continue to back Fury's recent moves as a Champion, and constantly regurgitate achievements he produced 7-8 years ago.

I just believe that potentially he is playing a very dangerous game with his nearest competition 'Because as I have said, greater fighters than Fury who were fighting at a level have lost fights right when everyone thought they were at their peak of influence'.

If Fury was training under Peter Fury, when it comes to pure fighting 'I don't think Peter Fury would agree with Fury's recent moves in the game'. When we are talking about real fighting against professional boxers, Fury is not a experience fighter at World or Elite level compared to his nearest competition'.

Those comments are also not a disrespect to Sugar Hill Steward 'Steward is just there to train Fury for whatever challenge he wants to take on, whether that be actually fighting top level Heavyweight boxers or Joe Bloggs'.

Zhang vs Fury 'Is a bigger event and business fight than Fury vs Usyk'. Fury has been backed into a corner now, he ether fights Usyk next or Zhang because those are his nearest competition' etc.

[joseph5620]

I agree. The idea that Wilder would fight somebody as dangerous as Zhang is hilarious.

Fury or Usyk should be the fighters expected to fight Zhang. Not Wilder. Fury is fighting an MMA fighter.. It's funny how the two belt holders get a pass for not fighting Zhang. Especially Fury.