Cruiserweight TONEY vs USYK - who u got?

[billeau2]

Someone please enlighten me? Im looking at Usyk's record of wins and while it is commendable, I guess because of my selective bias for Toney... I cannot find any great fighters that he beat yet... Certainly not on the level of McCallum, Nunn, Holyfield. I know I must be missing something and that the fact that Usyk never fought a fighter of the calibre that could "stop" another great fighter from doing what they do best, must be an oversight on my part...

So please...someone teach me the error of my ways...

Please don't:
1) Make excuses for wins or lossed for either fighter
2) Talk about amatuer records

Im not going to let my bias about the Griffin and Sam Peter fight interfere here, suffice to say they were competative fights... Im talking only the wins both men have to be fair...

[IronDanHamza]

No...Not a fact an opinion. I agree about Tiberi but its like so what? Yes Toney was inconsistent... We get that.

It's not an opinion, those fights you can argue either man won 7 rounds. None were robberies.

You can't for Toney-Tiberi, thus, a robbery. It doesn't matter what your opinion is on that fight, Tiberi won the fight.

Sosa, Johnson, McCallum 2, you can have the opinion Toney lost, fact is he won all 3

Griffin 1 & 2, Peter, Rahman, you can have the opinion Toney won, fact is he lost all 4.

[IronDanHamza]

Someone please enlighten me? Im looking at Usyk's record of wins and while it is commendable, I guess because of my selective bias for Toney... I cannot find any great fighters that he beat yet... Certainly not on the level of McCallum, Nunn, Holyfield. I know I must be missing something and that the fact that Usyk never fought a fighter of the calibre that could "stop" another great fighter from doing what they do best, must be an oversight on my part...

So please...someone teach me the error of my ways...

Please don't:
1) Make excuses for wins or lossed for either fighter
2) Talk about amatuer records

Im not going to let my bias about the Griffin and Sam Peter fight interfere here, suffice to say they were competative fights... Im talking only the wins both men have to be fair...

Holyfield's corpse Usyk has about 8 wins better than that.

No one's even claiming Usyk has a better resume than Toney anyway. Only that Usyk would beat him which he most certainly would, I doubt Toney could even win a round against Usyk. He's shown nothing in his career what so ever to suggest he could beat Usyk.

[Conteh'sLeft]

Usyk beats him in a wide UD, the fight proceeds similar to the Nunn fight without the knockout .

[billeau2]

It's not an opinion, those fights you can argue either man won 7 rounds. None were robberies.

You can't for Toney-Tiberi, thus, a robbery. It doesn't matter what your opinion is on that fight, Tiberi won the fight.

Sosa, Johnson, McCallum 2, you can have the opinion Toney lost, fact is he won all 3

Griffin 1 & 2, Peter, Rahman, you can have the opinion Toney won, fact is he lost all 4.

Its an opinion. People can watch the fight and decide for themselves... The judges are fallible. I don't care if you call it a robbery, or a wrong decision...

I never debated the Tiberi fight.

Your choosing when to call something an opinion, it does not work that way.

[billeau2]

Holyfield's corpse Usyk has about 8 wins better than that.

No one's even claiming Usyk has a better resume than Toney anyway. Only that Usyk would beat him which he most certainly would, I doubt Toney could even win a round against Usyk. He's shown nothing in his career what so ever to suggest he could beat Usyk.

Thats an opinion! and many posts ago I said Holyfield was old... Holy was still good enough to win.

Good! I am glad we cleared that up... A fighter's resume is something I would think would matter, considering that Toney fought better opposition that had the potential to be a greater challenge to Usyk. Thats not a knock on Usyk either.

Toney was a master technician, and if we judge his level we look at resumes lol. You just shiat on Toney Dan... its legendary, any Toney thread there you are telling us Toney is overated.

Problem is, until Usyk shows he can impose himself against an elite opponent, well... Its a little hard to say he shiats on Toney lol.

[IronDanHamza]

Its an opinion. People can watch the fight and decide for themselves... The judges are fallible. I don't care if you call it a robbery, or a wrong decision...

I never debated the Tiberi fight.

Your choosing when to call something an opinion, it does not work that way.

You can't debate Tiberi that's the point, he lost and it's not debatable.

The others at the very least are debatable as to who won, hence why they're not robberies.

You can think Toney beat Griffin x2, Peter and Rahman but the fact of the matter is he lost to them and the decisions were more than justifiable.

[IronDanHamza]

Thats an opinion! and many posts ago I said Holyfield was old... Holy was still good enough to win.

Good! I am glad we cleared that up... A fighter's resume is something I would think would matter, considering that Toney fought better opposition that had the potential to be a greater challenge to Usyk. Thats not a knock on Usyk either.

Toney was a master technician, and if we judge his level we look at resumes lol. You just shiat on Toney Dan... its legendary, any Toney thread there you are telling us Toney is overated.

Problem is, until Usyk shows he can impose himself against an elite opponent, well... Its a little hard to say he shiats on Toney lol.

Usyk has cleaned out and totally dominated the best Cruiserweight era of all time from top to bottom, becoming undisputed champion, he then moved up to Heavyweight and beaten minimum Top 3 HW of his era to unify Heavyweight with relative ease. You consider that untested, it's a totally absurd standpoint. Usyk has beaten top top level fighters, he's beaten them with ease, something Toney never did in his career.

James Toney on the other hand has a back and forth war with Jirov and can't beat an unranked Hasim Rahman at Cruiser and above.

There's absolutely no comparison between the two fighters at Cruiserweight and above. Toney's record at Cruiserweight and above is piss poor.

[billeau2]

You can't debate Tiberi that's the point, he lost and it's not debatable.

The others at the very least are debatable as to who won, hence why they're not robberies.

You can think Toney beat Griffin x2, Peter and Rahman but the fact of the matter is he lost to them and the decisions were more than justifiable.

Regarding Tiberi you contradict yourself here... either someone losing a decision is a matter of opinion, or it is a fact. Certainly there is room to have a stronger opinion than someone else...but that does not make it a fact. I could say I think Tiberi lost... I happen to think he won...I don't dispute that.

If something is debatable it is an __________. You just proved my point, thank you (see bolded).

Then you contradicted yourself again lol. keep that first part of the post and we agree. You don't get to decide which opinions are fact Dan. Are you seeing the logical inconsistency here?

People should watch the fights and make their own minds up... End of story.

[billeau2]

Usyk has cleaned out and totally dominated the best Cruiserweight era of all time from top to bottom, becoming undisputed champion, he then moved up to Heavyweight and beaten minimum Top 3 HW of his era to unify Heavyweight with relative ease. You consider that untested, it's a totally absurd standpoint. Usyk has beaten top top level fighters, he's beaten them with ease, something Toney never did in his career.

James Toney on the other hand has a back and forth war with Jirov and can't beat an unranked Hasim Rahman at Cruiser and above.

There's absolutely no comparison between the two fighters at Cruiserweight and above. Toney's record at Cruiserweight and above is piss poor.

His heavyweight fights were inconsistent. He looked horrid against Chisora. FACT! (kidding).

He is untested compared to Toney.

Toney handled Rahman easily... again watch the fights.

Usyk was better at cruiser...so?