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who are your top 5 Heavyweights as of now?

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  • billeau2
    replied
    Originally posted by REDEEMER View Post
    I dont believe fighters in the division of heavyweight can really avoid less shots against one another because of higher weight which will have them staying still more . They are bigger targets in general and take to give one back more then ever . That however also comes from longer reaches , I think most fighters have over 80 inches of reach which is insane . I should include reaches in the thread I made . Wilder vs Fury had a combined 168 inches of reach .

    Better defenses is generally learned earlier it’s why prospects do get hit more today but I think they learn relatively fast if they want to stick around ,sometimes they are just outclassed,DDD vs Gorman comes to mind .
    Its not avoiding the shots, its moving to offset the impact. Head movement is a big part of actually avoiding shots, but the way you carry your shoulders, the angles and position of the chin, are things that have to be learned. Reach is insane these days lol... It is more standard, so many guys have it and it is a big advantage. I agree about defense being learned early... Your going to have problems if you try to learn such skills later down the line... It is possible but its a handicap.

    I was reading an article about Usyk training. His trainer was having him move his head, throw a jab, move his head again... try that while doing a combination!

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  • moochi
    replied
    Fury
    Fury
    Fury
    Fury
    Usyk

    Leave a comment:


  • REDEEMER
    replied
    Originally posted by billeau2 View Post

    One thing that happens when fighters fight more, is they learn how to be defensivelly responsible, and/or how to not get hit as much. Watch someone like La motta carefully, it looks like he takes shots but he is always moving to offset the impact. Thats a big part of the craft that is often neglected.

    No have not seen that, but that is very big!

    I was never a fan of MMA either. A person has to know how to deal with the ring... Its a good part of training technique. Everyone loves the adrenaline lol, but some people like to fight and enjoy "winning" for its own sake.
    I dont believe fighters in the division of heavyweight can really avoid less shots against one another because of higher weight which will have them staying still more . They are bigger targets in general and take to give one back more then ever . That however also comes from longer reaches , I think most fighters have over 80 inches of reach which is insane . I should include reaches in the thread I made . Wilder vs Fury had a combined 168 inches of reach .

    Better defenses is generally learned earlier it’s why prospects do get hit more today but I think they learn relatively fast if they want to stick around ,sometimes they are just outclassed,DDD vs Gorman comes to mind .
    Last edited by REDEEMER; 10-15-2021, 09:06 PM.

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  • billeau2
    replied
    Originally posted by REDEEMER View Post

    Did you see that young 6”9 Mexican tonight who just fought on ESPN making his pro debut ? A lot of what you say is true but I get the feeling the fighters in their 30”s with less mileage on them are also stronger then the ones who were mid 30”s and nearing the end of the career because they started young. I guess it’s a give or take idk ? There’s a lot of talent out there ,I made a thread and rankings of the top 20 guys over 6”5 and there was no shortage . So,Swede prospects some were top 15 .

    Not much into MMA unless it’s the guys I know which is limited not into martial arts I’ve only dabbled in a few amateur bouts I was decent but I liked my face after the few losses I knew it was about that time to call it quits . Ha
    One thing that happens when fighters fight more, is they learn how to be defensivelly responsible, and/or how to not get hit as much. Watch someone like La motta carefully, it looks like he takes shots but he is always moving to offset the impact. Thats a big part of the craft that is often neglected.

    No have not seen that, but that is very big!

    I was never a fan of MMA either. A person has to know how to deal with the ring... Its a good part of training technique. Everyone loves the adrenaline lol, but some people like to fight and enjoy "winning" for its own sake.

    Leave a comment:


  • REDEEMER
    replied
    Originally posted by billeau2 View Post

    The U.S media was nasty to Lewis for ages... Everyone was going to teach Lewis a lesson... merchant with the ole "when will Lewis fight an American heavyweight" routine... As though that were some self evident milestone...

    The Media are ultimately sychophants to the talking heads...Minus those who write about and truly understand the sport.

    Prospects DO step up sooner, this is true. They also start a lot later and this is what hurts talent. In days gone by, when there was one belt, and when to be the heavyweight champion of the world meant exclusion... and where any champion was in rarified company, regardless of the division... guys were fighting golden gloves then professional in their late teens, by the time they were in their midtwenties they were climbing the ladder. Also, guys fought a lot more.

    My solution would be to have guys fight more... learn the skills in the ring, and learn the distinction between a goal of landing clean, flush shots, and slogging through all situations to land effictive shots. Instead of focusing on a perfect hook with the right part of the glove... focusing on having a big bald Gypsy KIng trying to smother you... getting your hips under his, moving into profile position enough to avoid the uppercut and shoot with the far hand to land shots...

    I base my ideas on when MMA came out to the Bay Area here and one of my students was involved with a major club that was participating. As a favor to him (MMA was never my forte) I worked with a few of the guys who were competing. What you notice is that whatever the base art used is... and there were a lot of Gracie Guys, San Da guys... Guys have to get experience and modify it for the ring. For example, instead of trying to kick a man's leg from the grapple, stomp and try to break his toes... much more effective in the ring, would not be effective in the street lol. But with bare feet, in a ring, to make a guy move his leg, it is effective... I know it sounds mean spirited... but broken toes and fingers heal ok... I damn neat dislocated every finger on both my hands through the years lol.

    Amatuer fighters, different styles all have to adapt to fighting professional prize fighting rules... and experience is a great teacher.



    Did you see that young 6”9 Mexican tonight who just fought on ESPN making his pro debut ? A lot of what you say is true but I get the feeling the fighters in their 30”s with less mileage on them are also stronger then the ones who were mid 30”s and nearing the end of the career because they started young. I guess it’s a give or take idk ? There’s a lot of talent out there ,I made a thread and rankings of the top 20 guys over 6”5 and there was no shortage . So,Swede prospects some were top 15 .

    Not much into MMA unless it’s the guys I know which is limited not into martial arts I’ve only dabbled in a few amateur bouts I was decent but I liked my face after the few losses I knew it was about that time to call it quits . Ha
    Last edited by REDEEMER; 10-15-2021, 08:22 PM.

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  • billeau2
    replied
    Originally posted by REDEEMER View Post

    Lewis lost his 26th fight the media never let up on him until he fought Tyson as it was a hugely U.S dominated sport to . I think it’s more what the media portrays . I think what saved A.J is he took the immediate rematch and won .

    Prospects today step up much sooner because of social media pressure.
    The U.S media was nasty to Lewis for ages... Everyone was going to teach Lewis a lesson... merchant with the ole "when will Lewis fight an American heavyweight" routine... As though that were some self evident milestone...

    The Media are ultimately sychophants to the talking heads...Minus those who write about and truly understand the sport.

    Prospects DO step up sooner, this is true. They also start a lot later and this is what hurts talent. In days gone by, when there was one belt, and when to be the heavyweight champion of the world meant exclusion... and where any champion was in rarified company, regardless of the division... guys were fighting golden gloves then professional in their late teens, by the time they were in their midtwenties they were climbing the ladder. Also, guys fought a lot more.

    My solution would be to have guys fight more... learn the skills in the ring, and learn the distinction between a goal of landing clean, flush shots, and slogging through all situations to land effictive shots. Instead of focusing on a perfect hook with the right part of the glove... focusing on having a big bald Gypsy KIng trying to smother you... getting your hips under his, moving into profile position enough to avoid the uppercut and shoot with the far hand to land shots...

    I base my ideas on when MMA came out to the Bay Area here and one of my students was involved with a major club that was participating. As a favor to him (MMA was never my forte) I worked with a few of the guys who were competing. What you notice is that whatever the base art used is... and there were a lot of Gracie Guys, San Da guys... Guys have to get experience and modify it for the ring. For example, instead of trying to kick a man's leg from the grapple, stomp and try to break his toes... much more effective in the ring, would not be effective in the street lol. But with bare feet, in a ring, to make a guy move his leg, it is effective... I know it sounds mean spirited... but broken toes and fingers heal ok... I damn neat dislocated every finger on both my hands through the years lol.

    Amatuer fighters, different styles all have to adapt to fighting professional prize fighting rules... and experience is a great teacher.




    Leave a comment:


  • F l i c k e r
    replied
    Fury
    Wilder
    Usyk
    Joshua
    Ruiz

    there’s a massive gulf between 1 and everyone else tho.

    Leave a comment:


  • LoadedWraps
    replied
    Originally posted by lopetego View Post
    1. Fury
    2. Usyk
    3. Wilder
    4. Joshua
    5. Ruiz


    What a garbage heavyweight era we have

    The Klitschkos were the last true great heavyweights

    Garbage because you say so?

    Wlads era was weak, this is a strong era.

    And those names are your list. If we look at most top 20 lists, there are a bunch of good fights to be made.

    Weak division was the excuse the haters made when Fury bodied Wlad.



    Now you want to push that old narrative after several of the most competitive and exciting fights in probably 20 years? Laughable.

    Fury
    Povetkin
    Ortiz Jr
    Anderson
    Sanchez
    Coffie
    Ajagba
    Helenius
    Usyk
    Whyte
    AJ
    Joyce
    Parker
    Wallin
    Yoka
    Berlanga


    Then people who half of these clowns would swear are bums, or shells, but who actually are competitive against 1/3 or greater odds the above list:
    Arreola
    Ustinov
    Scott
    Kownacki


    a slew of fights can be made with just these names, big fights, and barn burners.

    You don't even know why you think it's a weak era, you just repeat drivel some other mong rambled off. How is it a weak division? I'll take the champion of this era and put him against any champ from any other era.

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  • REDEEMER
    replied
    Originally posted by billeau2 View Post

    There has been for a while a fear of losing. If one looks at the best fighters they lost. Promoters encourage goose egg fever as well...

    I hope things pick up so the prospects get their chances as well.
    Lewis lost his 26th fight the media never let up on him until he fought Tyson as it was a hugely U.S dominated sport to . I think it’s more what the media portrays . I think what saved A.J is he took the immediate rematch and won .

    Prospects today step up much sooner because of social media pressure.
    Last edited by REDEEMER; 10-15-2021, 06:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hatesrats
    replied
    1. Tyson Fury
    2. Oleksandr Usyk
    3. Anthony Joshua
    4. Deontay Wilder



    5. Everyone Else.

    Leave a comment:

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