Can guys with 25 losses or more be top 25 ATG's

[miron_lang]

I wouldn't put Pac ahead of RJJ...idk about Pancho

And the list is a year or two old...

I admit that might be up for a debate.

you list Roy's TOP 10 wins and PAC's TOP 10 wins. No downplaying or highlighting certain details to avoid a merry go round argument.

which one is better?

1. Erik Morales 2X
2. Marco Antonio Barrera 2X
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Ricky Hatton
5. Oscar Larios
6. Oscar Dela Hoya
7. Chatchai Sasakul
8. Lehlo Ledwabba
9. David Diaz
10. Jorge Julio


All World Champions. All won multiple championship from diffrent weight divisions except the last 4. This resume beat roy's imo.

[JAB5239]

From ESPN

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
18. Archie Moore
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson

I just noticed there is no Charley Burley on this list. Hmmmmm!

[miron_lang]

That's the only way you really can do it...

I doubt very few here have seen a lot of Henry Armstrong, Jack Johnson, Dempsey, and others...

I've seen most of those old schoold fighters only in books and magazines. old videos arent accurate enough they move like cartoons.

I was watching Villa vs Wilde and all of sudden wilde was down on the floor out.

[miron_lang]

I just noticed there is no Charley Burley on this list. Hmmmmm!

Yeah and Carlos Monzon, Alexis Arguello and Evander are below Oscar Dela Hoya

[-EX-]

I've seen most of those old schoold fighters only in books and magazines. old videos arent accurate enough they move like cartoons.

I was watching Villa vs Wilde and all of sudden wilde was down on the floor out.

I admit that might be up for a debate.

you list Roy's TOP 10 wins and PAC's TOP 10 wins. No downplaying or highlighting certain details to avoid a merry go round argument.

which one is better?

1. Erik Morales 2X
2. Marco Antonio Barrera 2X
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Ricky Hatton
5. Oscar Larios
6. Oscar Dela Hoya
7. Chatchai Sasakul
8. Lehlo Ledwabba
9. David Diaz
10. Jorge Julio


All World Champions. All won multiple championship from diffrent weight divisions except the last 4. This resume beat roy's imo.

I won't put it 1-10 cuz some might debate it...

James Toney
Bernard Hopkins
Mike McCallum
Virgil Hill
Antonio Tarver
John Ruiz
Glen Johnson
Clinton Woods
Montell Griffin
Vinny Pazienza or Felix Trinidad(well washed up Trinidad)

It may be close...both had higher weight supremacy....Roy went from 160 to heavyweight

[-EX-]

Yeah and Carlos Monzon, Alexis Arguello and Evander are below Oscar Dela Hoya

You would put Arguello ahead of Evander?

[JAB5239]

I've seen most of those old schoold fighters only in books and magazines. old videos arent accurate enough they move like cartoons.

I was watching Villa vs Wilde and all of sudden wilde was down on the floor out.

It not impossible, but very difficult to judge fighters by old film. They are missing many frames, grainy, filmed from a distance and most of the time from only one angle. What you see isn't a complete picture. TheGreatA put up a video of Vitaly with the missing frames and grainier than todays film and it changed how he looked as a fighter noticeably. How are we to believe fighters of the past were so crude when they fought on such crappy film, when one of the best heavyweights in the last 10 years looked like crap on a film not nearly as bad?

[JAB5239]

You would put Arguello ahead of Evander?

I would. I rate Arguello very highly. Guy was a beast!

[-EX-]

I would. I rate Arguello very highly. Guy was a beast!

Alfredo Escalera, Jose Luis Ramirez, Ruben Castillo appear to be Arguello's best wins...

Evander's are probably Rid**** Bowe, Mike Tyson, and Michael Moorer...

I haven't seen enough Arguello to say for sure really...Evander is the only 4-time champ tho

Edit: O **** I forgot about Ruben Olivares...

[miron_lang]

You would put Arguello ahead of Evander?

All 3 should be above DLH IMO.

Between Vander and Arguello I'll rate Evander higher.