If weight matters in punching power why does Wilder hit harder than Ruiz ?

[billeau2]

Well it's simple physics - force is directly proportional to momentum which is proportional to velocity and mass. So more mass or velocity generally equates to a larger force or punching power in this case.

If a person has more natural bodyweight, that generally translates in to more mass although that could come at the cost of speed, especially if a fighter is too fat - thus the drop is velocity cancels out the increase in mass. A fighter could also just be heavy handed and have more mass in his hand than is typical. In Deontay Wilder's case, he winds up his power punches to increase the velocity so he gets more force, often at the cost of basic boxing ability. So ultimately it's never as simple as more or less body weight when it comes to punching power.

But in all honesty, who were all these people claiming more weight meant more punching power? I don't think ever seen such a claim.

ahem! look in some of the threads on this topic... Quite a few unfortunately.

[Scopedog]

It's all about leverage. Weight can help with that but not necessarily. Just look at what a thunderbolt Tommy Hearns' right hand was despite him being rail-thin. Wilder's much the same way, he's way bigger than Tommy but has a fairly similar build.

[Sun_Tzu]

He doesnt necessarily, Ruiz has infinitely more boxing skill than Wilder and doesnt swing for the fences on every power punch he throws. Wilder is looking to put the guy in front of him to sleep at all times. People forget he was outboxed by the likes of Szpilka and Duhapas and Molina if I remember right because all he was trying to do is land the highlight reel KO. He is a one trick pony and he trained around it his entire career and it worked until it didnt. His power is vastly over rated, dont get me wrong he hits very hard but he isnt on another level from the great power punchers of the past.

[Cypocryphy]

It's not how hard you hit, necessarily. It's how fast you can get the head to jerk. There was a study that stated in order to have a 25 percent chance to knock someone out, you have to have the head torque at a rate of 0 to 43,000 rpm in one second. That doesn't mean you have to hit with 1,000 psi or anything like that. So speed is really the main requirement.

When Deontay throws his punch, you'll see that he brings it back very far, and that creates this elastic effect, like a rubber band, with his muscles. It's technically not the best technique because of the tendency to telegraph the punch. But he's able to whip that punch, generating a lot of force and speed.

You will also notice how long Wilder's arms are. That helps creating that elastic, whipping punch.

The other factor is that he has very wide shoulders and a strong back. These too allow him to get more torque into his punches, making them very forceful and very fast.

That's the main reason.

(1) His body shape (shoulders, arm length, back, mass) in total

(2) How he's throwing his punches, whipping them into people (haymaker style)

(3) The speed of his punches

(4) Where he hits people to cause the brain to bounce

[anonymous2.0]

So the fatter you are the harder you punch?

If anything it's because their hand is heavy. Fat people barely have knuckles. Also windmill has steel in his hands so that's why.

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[Roadblock]

Wilder punches much harder than Ruiz despite Ruiz 40 lb advantage why is this ?

lol , it matters but its not all of the equation, open your eyes to ALL aspects of punching power, there is speed, muscle type, leverage and technique, weight is only one element.

[Zelda]

Wilder punches much harder than Ruiz despite Ruiz 40 lb advantage why is this ?

Momentum = mass x velocity.

That equation is the key to all those "how does X hit harder than Y" questions. The reason for different types of fighters hitting hard is how they generate the momentum that is transferred on impact. Some generate this because they have a heavy hand (Foreman), some because they hit from a distance (Wilder), some because they have extremely fast hands and throw punches in combinations (Ruiz), and some because they use a twist to generate that force by using angular velocity (Mike), while others because they may not be great in any single thing but use a combination of multiple factors.

Moreover, the impact of these punches is multiple by where you hit, how often you hit, and whether they other guy saw it coming or not. The punch that you did not see coming causes the most damage because the brain isn't prepared for that. The punch where you head is stiff or moving against the incoming punch also causes a lot of damage because the impact is doubled.

[joseph5620]

Wilder punches much harder than Ruiz despite Ruiz 40 lb advantage why is this ?

It really doesn't matter if you're a heavyweight. The lower weights are a different story

[Marchegiano]

Just look up kinematic chains. I've explained this **** to death, wilder's damage comes from giving reactive energy no place to go.

Punching is like forming a Newton's Cradle through the body with your bones. What is optimal for power is as direct a linkage between joints as possible.

If you can't remember what a Newton's Cradle is, trust me, you know, you just forgot:

I ain't watched that ****, just using it as an example of a cradle.

So obviously, with a Cradle itself we can talk about kinetic energy transfer more easily than with the different bones of the body, but, for the body, generally speaking 180 degree connections are best, that is one bone lined up directly behind another like a train. Arm straight out and ****s like that. Secondary to the 180 is the 90. Hooks, uppercuts, overhands, sitting on the punches, Dempsey's "bow". The angle on a Cradle's balls juxtaposed to one another is obviously 180

Back to the Newton's Cradle. The physical, separate, bodies are lined up in such a way so's when one is struck it transfers its energy to the next. In physics we call this kinematic links or kinematic pairs. A series of kinematic links is a kinematic chain. So what a Newton's Cradle is showing you is kinematic chains at work and what is at the end of the cradle? An example of action-reaction physics. The starter ball hits the chain balls, the kinematic links transfer energy through the chain to the end ball who in turn returns fire.

You already understand why the kinematic chain doesn't move, but jic, it's because it can't. Every impact in the entire system is an action-reaction but the reactionary energy has nowhere to go but in the same direction as the input energy. So in the Cradle the balls stay still, but, that doesn't mean they did not contribute to or challenger the energy transferred into them, they did, both of these things and so do the bones of a fighter throwing a punch.

So, if you're a boxer trying to hit hard you have to do some things that are far, far more predictable. Most fighters, even "punchers" are not willing to put as much into their punches because of the predictability to causes. It's very difficult to be honestly dishonest but that's really the only form of dishonesty a puncher can punch with. Marciano's Suzie Q is honest dishonesty. Marciano's Phantom Overhead is honest dishonesty. Walcott's Sucka Punch, Shuffle, and Shoulder Rolls were more dishonest and deceptive.

When Wilder, or Marciano, throw punches most of the time they aim their outside of their fist, keep their kinematic chains in 180s and 90s, and plant their feet. Which gives them sick power compared to men bigger than them who are unwilling to commit so much to their punches but also makes them very predictable.

Andy like a mid-range fight, he's just not putting as much behind his punches, he's trying to be more fluid than that, more similar to Mike Tyson and less Marciano.

So here's what end up being what really separates them. Andy's kinematic chains are for putting energy into a body. His **** looks very similar to Wilder's in a lot of ways but also very different and those differences are really key. Andy puts energy into a body but isn't there to address the reaction energy because his punches are putting hand-speed first and power second. So a lot of his structure is very similar, but, because he's not firing his next as his last lands he's not putting as much energy into shots as he could and he's not blocking the reaction energy from causing him to absorb some energy.

Conversely, Wilder punches holes into men. His kinematic chains seem similar but his subtle difference is to drive his fist through you. Which gives him to ability to form like a wall against his opponent when he hits them. Wilder's putting very direct kinematic chains to work from his foot to his fist and putting so much energy into it he doesn't have a choice but to reflect the reactionary energy. So, energy comes from his foot, travels up his skeletal structure into his fist, his fist is hit back by reaction energy from his opponent, but, unlike Ruiz's structure and timing, Wilder's fist is not in retreat, his chains have not started to reform or change, his body is 100% dedicated to delivering energy to his opposition and so, just like the balls of a cradle, Wilder's opponents are not just hit with the energy Wilder creates, they're hit with the reaction energy as well because there's no change in Wilder's form it can't go back into Wilder.

Marciano's 925 ft-lbs has him, at 185, hitting for about as much energy as a .44 or a little more torque than a dodge challenger or tesla roadster....one can only imagine what Wilder's numbers would equate to.

Equally, one can only imagine the kind of power a guy like Ruiz could throw if he was trained to box less and hurt people more.

Wlad's right hand is an excellent example of perfect kinematic chaining that leads to the reaction energy being absorbed by the impacted rather than impacter too.

Wilder, Marciano, Wlad, these dudes knew how to hit exactly like a cradle shows. Ruiz is a bit like a newton's cradle with a spring between the first and second ball. Similar, faster, but not as hard hitting and not going to send the final ball as far.