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Why do some people pretend anyone at HW could beat Wilder?

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  • -Kev-
    replied
    Originally posted by Brumsongs1 View Post
    He'll be easier to beat now that Fury has shown how it's done. Wilder will need to adapt because previously his opponents, including Fury in the first fight, relied on out-boxing him. That was a failed strategy because, as Wilder puts it, he only has to be good for a second of each fight. Fury showed that he can be bullied on the inside if a fighter can slip the right hand to get there.
    Fury is 6’9’, 273lbs. He had 40lbs on Wilder.

    I don’t know why it’s so hard for some fans to understand Fury’s blueprint was not some smart tactical gameplan. It was literally to use his size advantage on the smaller, shorter Wilder. He didn’t “outbox” or ran from Wilder.

    Andy Ruiz can’t use the same “blueprint” on Wilder.

    Neither can Joseph Parker.

    Or Dillian Whyte.

    They can’t use Tyson Fury’s size/height advantage on Wilder. Because they don’t have these advantages.

    So I don’t know what this “blueprint” is.

    When Tyson lost to Douglas, other top 10 HW’s couldn’t replicate what Douglas did. Lol there is no blueprint. The win over Wilder is unique to Tyson Fury. No one else at HW can beat Wilder using Fury’s tactics.

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  • Brumsongs1
    replied
    He'll be easier to beat now that Fury has shown how it's done. Wilder will need to adapt because previously his opponents, including Fury in the first fight, relied on out-boxing him. That was a failed strategy because, as Wilder puts it, he only has to be good for a second of each fight. Fury showed that he can be bullied on the inside if a fighter can slip the right hand to get there.

    Leave a comment:


  • billeau2
    replied
    Originally posted by -Kev- View Post

    If a fighter is fighting well in every round, but gets KO’ed in a round, he sucks. The work he put in gets erased off of fans minds. It’s how fans have adapted to see fights.

    I’m beating you 11 rounds, you KO me in the 12th. I suck. And the fighter who got the KO also sucks, because he lost 11 rounds and his power won him the fight.

    So both professional fighters suck according to the guy on the couch.
    I was going to just "like" the post but I had to add... If you say enough times, "X is washed up" its like the common cold, everyone starts saying it.

    Leave a comment:


  • billeau2
    replied
    Originally posted by Nash out View Post

    That's being very selective. For one, you don't need to be a good finisher to win a fight. On top of that, if Ali's KO of Liston happens today, every says Liston is packing glass. Let's put it this way, Tyson Fury beats Liston whether he fights off the back foot, like he did against Wlad, or on the front foot like he did vs Wilder. Liston could only dream of having the variation and skillset of Tyson Fury. Way to much bias goes in favor of these olden day guys.
    ? Have you watched Liston fight? Liston was probably 40 something when he fought Ali. Fury has never fought a fighter who pressured near what Liston did. Look... I like Tyson, I think he has skills but he has only really fought two fighters of any real rank... And the mark of a great fighter is that they make the other guy NOT able... So in reality if Fury fought Liston, one has to ask not what each man can do, but rather, what each man can do to prevent the other man from doing.

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  • -Kev-
    replied
    Originally posted by billeau2 View Post

    Ortiz looked good to me that fight. He was constantly throwing the jab, working off the jab occasionally hitting with the cross... I mean you really think he looked like a shot fighter? We can agree to disagree.
    If a fighter is fighting well in every round, but gets KO’ed in a round, he sucks. The work he put in gets erased off of fans minds. It’s how fans have adapted to see fights.

    I’m beating you 11 rounds, you KO me in the 12th. I suck. And the fighter who got the KO also sucks, because he lost 11 rounds and his power won him the fight.

    So both professional fighters suck according to the guy on the couch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nash out
    replied
    Originally posted by billeau2 View Post

    Ok so lets look at Vitali. I think he was better than his brother, and had some decent qualities of durability, chin, power... Now compare him to Liston (bare with me) and you will see what the long game looks like, when evaluating what a fighter is capable of. I use Liston because Liston has some similarities with the unrefined style, psychology and development of a fighter like vitalie. Both men were durable, big, strong, had power and could fight. Heres how a comparison would look after watching tape, evaluating competition, etc...

    Liston: Great finisher, intense psychological pressure, strong, great chin, punches in bunches, great jab, defensively ok, could fight all ranges.
    Vitalie: Horrid finisher, no real pschyolgical presence to speak of, strong, great chin, occasionally can throw a combo, decent jab, Defensively ok, only really fights from the outside.

    So, this gives you an idea of how Vitalie would probably do against a great heavyweight fighter.
    That's being very selective. For one, you don't need to be a good finisher to win a fight. On top of that, if Ali's KO of Liston happens today, every says Liston is packing glass. Let's put it this way, Tyson Fury beats Liston whether he fights off the back foot, like he did against Wlad, or on the front foot like he did vs Wilder. Liston could only dream of having the variation and skillset of Tyson Fury. Way to much bias goes in favor of these olden day guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • billeau2
    replied
    Originally posted by kafkod View Post

    In the first Wilder fight Ortiz punched himself out with 2 short bursts of aggression toward the end of the 7th round and at the beginning of the 8th after rocking Wilder and and having him seemingly on the verge of defeat.

    Failing to close a fight because you don't have enough stamina to keep an attack going for more than 2 minutes is a sign of a shot fighter.

    In the second fight Ruiz looked old, slow and shot from the first bell. Yes, he was outscoring Deontay, but only because Deontay was doing nothing except wait for an opening to land his big right hand.
    Ruiz? Thats what Wilder does... "wait to land a big right hand." Again: a puncher's game is in the number of opportunities he gets. Your goal is not to win rounds, but to get the most shots at the gold ring... A great example of this is the Louis Conn fight. louis was being beat the entire fight, and when he got his opportunity he delivered.

    In that second fight Ortiz landed jabs, he was winning rounds like he should, and as a smart fighter, if you win the rounds with the jab, why risk the bigger punch? As far as the first fight, Ortiz was no different than many fighters in the division today who lack the ability to fight 3 minutes of every round and tire in the later rounds... what is AJ's excuse? Or Whyte's?

    Leave a comment:


  • billeau2
    replied
    Originally posted by Nash out View Post

    Wlad, Vitali and Lewis would be problems for any HW's in history.
    Ok so lets look at Vitali. I think he was better than his brother, and had some decent qualities of durability, chin, power... Now compare him to Liston (bare with me) and you will see what the long game looks like, when evaluating what a fighter is capable of. I use Liston because Liston has some similarities with the unrefined style, psychology and development of a fighter like vitalie. Both men were durable, big, strong, had power and could fight. Heres how a comparison would look after watching tape, evaluating competition, etc...

    Liston: Great finisher, intense psychological pressure, strong, great chin, punches in bunches, great jab, defensively ok, could fight all ranges.
    Vitalie: Horrid finisher, no real pschyolgical presence to speak of, strong, great chin, occasionally can throw a combo, decent jab, Defensively ok, only really fights from the outside.

    So, this gives you an idea of how Vitalie would probably do against a great heavyweight fighter.

    Leave a comment:


  • billeau2
    replied
    Originally posted by Earl-Hickey View Post

    What we're you watching, Ortiz looked like what he is in the second fight, an OLD MAN.

    Yes he was outboxing Wilder, guess what, Eric Molina outboxed Wilder.

    Ortiz is a bum who's only good win in his entire career was Bryant Jennings.
    Ortiz looked good to me that fight. He was constantly throwing the jab, working off the jab occasionally hitting with the cross... I mean you really think he looked like a shot fighter? We can agree to disagree.

    Leave a comment:


  • REDEEMER
    replied
    Originally posted by Nash out View Post

    Everything I said was right. I've watched boxing for 30 years, and make thousands, upon thousands in boxing betting every year. I've posted many of my bets on here before, such as Lopez beating Loma. You need to stop being ignorant and realise that you can learn a lot from Nash. I'm a boxing Scene Hall of Famer for a reason. Nash out.
    Eddie Futch leaving Bowe had a lot to do with his decline and shortly after his retirement after the first Golota fight . Bowe ducked Lewis would have zero to do with how he could fight at his best . Today he would be a top 5 and box guys like Whyte , Wilder who are stylistically made for him and majority top ten guys ears off because they aren’t Lennox Lewis . In fact Joshua resembles Bowe the most with ability to fight inside at 6”6 throwing crisp power shots even Bowe admitted that and ironically AJ is the best right now because he’s actually defending titles .
    Last edited by REDEEMER; 07-21-2021, 09:18 AM.

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