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The demise of the American heavyweight

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  • Originally posted by A_State501 View Post

    Basketball is where the American HW's are.

    And where are the HWs in the rest of the world?

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    • Originally posted by kushking View Post

      Don't know where you pulled these figures from but they seem horribly inaccurate, theres zero chance theres only 42 uk hws & 285 US hws unless you count complete bums in the US & only count the REAL pros in the UK.
      ​​​​​
      I can name probably 10 at most who are heavyweight boxers in the U.K. and I from the U.K. and I follow boxing a lot so yes I doubt very much there are more than the numbers of 42....plus boxec is linked up with the BBBC and every heavyweight is registered with them so your wrong

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      • Originally posted by TMLT87 View Post

        You're talking out of your ass. AJ walked into a boxing gym as an adult, and him and Fury are drawn from a British HW talent pool thats about as big as the roster of a typical ****ing rugby team, i'm not even exaggerating that btw.

        Active US HWs: 285
        Active UK HWs: 42
        Active HWs in all or Europe + Russia: 415
        Active HWs on the planet: 1130

        The US has almost 7 times as many active HWs as the UK and account for like a quarter of HWs on the planet.

        As for the NFL and the NBA, combined they have a little over 2000 players in them at any one time. Take away the none HW sized players and the foreign players and its probably more like half that. Then that pool gets even smaller when you filter out all the 300+lb fatties who are not built for boxing at all. Then take into account that plenty of NFL players actually arent making the huge money people keep talking about, its not spread out evenly.


        https://work.chron.com/much-money-ba...ake-14452.html

        "The median salary for all NFL players is $860,000. Not a shabby income, but still far below the $2 million that gets more publicity. For perspective, a starting one-year rookie has a minimum income of $435,000. Most of the attention from the press is on the stunningly high incomes of top quarterbacks. A few of them have contracts paying upward of $25 to $30 million per year. The average salary for all quarterbacks is $5,766,000, but the median income is $1,100,000. Defensive ends come in after the quarterbacks with high salary contracts. Defensive ends have an average income of $2,625,000 and a median salary of $847,300.

        At the low end of the pay scale are the running backs. They get banged up during every game and only last about three years in the league. The average wage for a running back is $1,012,000, while the median salary is $630,0002"


        This is for a 16 game regular season with an extremely low average career length. Meanwhile Deontay Wilder made around $25m for the rematch with Fury. Charles ****ing Martin made $8.5m vs AJ, Ruiz likely close to 20 million for his two fights with AJ. Even in the UFC (which everyone says has ****ty pay) Stipe just got paid $790k for the Ngannou fight, Derrick Lewis earned over a million from 3 fights in the last year.

        So in conclusion we are talking about roughly a thousand viable HW sized Americans between the NBA and NFL, not all of them even making big money, who may or may not be good at boxing if they tried. This is the crutch America, a nation of 330 million people, ie the largest first world country by a factor of more than double, stands on to excuse any sporting failures. Its ****ing pathetic.



        Americans dont dominate the UFC anymore either now that its grown internationally. They have 2 of 12 available belts right now. One champ won his belt by DQ in a fight he was getting his ass kicked in and the other moved to America when he was 8.



        The US holds 20 of 64 available major belts at LHW and below. Its a good number but lets not pretend its "domination", and hey....every other countries best athletes of that size are playing soccer....right?



        Jarryd Hayne was a rugby LEAGUE player, rugby league is a spin off sport of rugby union (the sport generally referred to as "rugby") and has probably less than 1/10th of the talent pool. He spent like a year learning about the NFL from ****ing Madden games at the age of like 27 before getting into the NFL, being put at RB even though it didnt suit his attributes at all, and playing alongside what was literally the worst O line in the league at the time, and he was still a roughly mid level RB in terms of rushing yards. Then he quit of his own accord because he wanted to play for the Fiji sevens team in the upcoming olympics, but failed to make it.

        Rugby likely has a much larger talent pool than American football because its an actual international sport, if the talent pool and resources was redirected to American football instead we'd probably be hearing "Americans dont care about football anymore, our best athletes are in the WWE" in 20 years.
        The top American athletes that are over 200 pounds go into other sports. If it doesn't work out they box. Why do you think American boxers dominate the lower divisions but not at Heavyweight?.

        Look at the Welterweight division. Crawford, Spence, Thurman, Porter, Danny Garcia, Mikey Garcia, Jesse Vargas etc

        Or how about the Junior Middleweight division. With Julian Williams, Jermell Charlo, Tony Harrison, Jarret Hurd, Lubin etc

        Or how about the lightweight division. With Teofimo Lopez, Devin Haney, Ryan Garcia, Gervonta Davis (If you count him at lw) etc

        Or super feather. With Shakur Stevenson, Herring, Diaz, Farmer, Colbert.

        You see a pattern here? Seems like Americans do dominate in boxing just not at the Heavyweight division (and the very small divisions too. Because few Americans are even that size) after years of dominating. Why would that be? Coincidence? I think not. The reason is cause people in America don't care about boxing and the top athletes who are heavyweight size can make a lot of money in the NBA, NFL and MLB. Back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s these leagues didn't pay players neither as much money as top boxers.

        You can try to ignore all logic but this is pretty obvious if you live in the US and understand the culture




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        • Originally posted by MikeyMike100 View Post

          The top American athletes that are over 200 pounds go into other sports.
          Okay and where do the top athletes over 200lbs outside of America go?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TMLT87 View Post

            Okay and where do the top athletes over 200lbs outside of America go?
            I don't know much about other countries but I know about America cause I live here.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MikeyMike100 View Post

              I don't know much about other countries but I know about America cause I live here.
              The point is, nobody else prioritizes HW boxing either. Like I said before the UK has 42 active professional HWs, for comparison heres a sample of the roster of the current English Premiership rugby union champions the Exeter Chiefs..


              Jonny Gray - 6'6, 267lbs
              Tom Price 6'8 258lbs
              Richard Capstick 6'6 242lbs
              Sam Skinner 6'5 249lbs
              Jonny Hill - 6'7 249lbs
              Sean Lonsdale 6'5 242lbs
              Will Witty 6'5 260lbs
              Don Armand 6'3 254lbs
              Lewis Pearson 64 242lbs
              Jack Yeandle 6'1 251lbs
              Dave Ewers 6'4 275lbs
              Alex Cuthbert 6'6 234lbs
              Luke Cowan Dickie - 6'0 247lbs
              Tomas Francis 6'1 298lbs
              Alec Hepburn 6'1 238lbs
              Billy Keast 6'0 240lbs
              Ben Moon 5'11 240lbs
              Marcus Street 6'1 258lbs
              Matt Johnson 6'3 295lbs
              James Kenny 60 255lbs
              Alfie Petch 5'11 273lbs
              Danny Southworth 5'10 246lbs
              Jack Innard 5'11 227lbs
              Max Norey 5'10 229lbs
              Jordan Poole 5'10 233lbs
              Ollie Devoto 6'3 227lbs
              Ian Whitten 6'2 224lbs


              Thats one team, in the English league system which has 3 fully pro leagues, then the Scottish, Irish and Welsh teams play in their own separate league system. In addition theres also an entirely different sport called rugby league which also has 3 fully pro leagues in England. 99% of the UKs HW talent pool are going into rugby union or rugby league. AJ and Fury are drawn from the other 1%.


              If you look outside of the UK - rugby also gets the lions share of HWs in Australia (with AFL also being a major factor there), New Zealand, South Africa, France, Italy, Argentina etc. Then depending on where you are in Europe basketball or ice hockey are getting most of the HWs, with boxing being far behind both. Russia puts more HWs into basketball, hockey, wrestling and at the moment actually have slightly more active HWs in MMA than boxing. There are a few other countries like Poland and Sweden where MMA is taking a good chunk of the HW fighter pool from boxing too.
              Last edited by TMLT87; 04-14-2021, 10:41 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TMLT87 View Post

                The point is, nobody else prioritizes HW boxing either. Like I said before the UK has 42 active professional HWs, for comparison heres a sample of the roster of the current English Premiership rugby union champions the Exeter Chiefs..


                Jonny Gray - 6'6, 267lbs
                Tom Price 6'8 258lbs
                Richard Capstick 6'6 242lbs
                Sam Skinner 6'5 249lbs
                Jonny Hill - 6'7 249lbs
                Sean Lonsdale 6'5 242lbs
                Will Witty 6'5 260lbs
                Don Armand 6'3 254lbs
                Lewis Pearson 64 242lbs
                Jack Yeandle 6'1 251lbs
                Dave Ewers 6'4 275lbs
                Alex Cuthbert 6'6 234lbs
                Luke Cowan Dickie - 6'0 247lbs
                Tomas Francis 6'1 298lbs
                Alec Hepburn 6'1 238lbs
                Billy Keast 6'0 240lbs
                Ben Moon 5'11 240lbs
                Marcus Street 6'1 258lbs
                Matt Johnson 6'3 295lbs
                James Kenny 60 255lbs
                Alfie Petch 5'11 273lbs
                Danny Southworth 5'10 246lbs
                Jack Innard 5'11 227lbs
                Max Norey 5'10 229lbs
                Jordan Poole 5'10 233lbs
                Ollie Devoto 6'3 227lbs
                Ian Whitten 6'2 224lbs


                Thats one team, in the English league system which has 3 fully pro leagues, then the Scottish, Irish and Welsh teams play in their own separate league system. In addition theres also an entirely different sport called rugby league which also has 3 fully pro leagues in England. 99% of the UKs HW talent pool are going into rugby union or rugby league. AJ and Fury are drawn from the other 1%.


                If you look outside of the UK - rugby also gets the lions share of HWs in Australia (with AFL also being a major factor there), New Zealand, South Africa, France, Italy, Argentina etc. Then depending on where you are in Europe basketball or ice hockey are getting most of the HWs, with boxing being far behind both. Russia puts more HWs into basketball, hockey, wrestling and at the moment actually have slightly more active HWs in MMA than boxing. There are a few other countries like Poland and Sweden where MMA is taking a good chunk of the HW fighter pool from boxing too.
                America has over 5x the population of the UK so that's why they have more heavyweights obviously. If you are asking why the American heavyweights have declined the reason is that boxing used to be the number 1 sport in the USA and now it's no where close. Football, college football, basketball, college basketball, baseball, MMA are all bigger.

                This and the increase in foreign countries like the UK and Eastern European countries getting more into boxing has changed the landscape of heavyweight boxing.

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                • As I have been saying ad nauseam, nothing is going to change until boxing gets a Super Heavyweight division. Some people may not like to hear this but it's what boxing needs right now. Times have changed and boxing needs a new weight class to accommodate the bigger Heavyweights that outweigh the smaller ones by 50 - 70 lbs.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The plunger man View Post
                    I don’t doubt it’s not physically exhausting and tough but we have rugby over here as well and we know them boys are one tough sons of bs and it’s the same for NFL.......not every big guy over here go’s into rugby and you have to be talented at it and I just do buy the NFL excuse because ufc has a huge following ....nothing beats being the the heavyweight champion of the world and it’s still the coveted title in the world.
                    look up jon jones' net worth...now look up his brother chandler who plays in the nfl lol....chandler is good player too but not great

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by HandsofIron View Post
                      As I have been saying ad nauseam, nothing is going to change until boxing gets a Super Heavyweight division. Some people may not like to hear this but it's what boxing needs right now. Times have changed and boxing needs a new weight class to accommodate the bigger Heavyweights that outweigh the smaller ones by 50 - 70 lbs.
                      They made up the Strawweight division, why not a Superheavyweight division? ...........Rockin'

                      Comment

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