Joe Calzaghe was not on the level of.....Jones, Hopkins, Toney

[bsrizpac]

It's true he wasn't on their level, because he didn't do as much. Well, actually, Toney faced the toughest competition, then Jones.... Hopkins and Calzage faced about the same levels of competition during their runs. They both stepped it up about the same time too. A common misconception is that Hopkins faced stiffer competition, not so. He faced about the same level of competition as Joe, he just did it at a much older age.

Joe didn't do enough to be on their level, but that's not to say that he isn't as far as skills are concerned. He had and still has all the skill to be on their level, he just didn't quite rise to the occasion. Frank Warren is as much to blame.

I sort agree. I don't know about how "skilled" he is. I think he is very natural and instinctive.

One his instructional video I don't get the impression Joe knows what he's talking about in terms of tactics and strategy. I don't know if this is because he's simply a poor teacher/communicator or not but I think it's just a natural thing to him. He just does it. He throws the right punches at the right time.

I don't get a high skill impression from him in that sense. However, I also think this has a lot to do with having a goofball Super Mario brothers Character as a trainer.

[S.G.]

It's true he wasn't on their level, because he didn't do as much. Well, actually, Toney faced the toughest competition, then Jones.... Hopkins and Calzage faced about the same levels of competition during their runs. They both stepped it up about the same time too. A common misconception is that Hopkins faced stiffer competition, not so. He faced about the same level of competition as Joe, he just did it at a much older age.

i'd say Hopkins' middleweight run trumps Joe's super middleweight run

and Hopkins' end-of-career run eclipses Joe's

but even so, it's a fair point

[nathan_nall]

i'd say Hopkins' middleweight run trumps Joe's super middleweight run

and Hopkins' end-of-career run eclipses Joe's

but even so, it's a fair point

I just see the two as neck and neck their whole career. It makes you wonder why in the hell these two didn't meet 5 years ago. Hopkins has done wonders for himself in the twilight of his career, but I still have to give the edge to Joe. Only because Hopkins went his entire career with only two losses until Taylor. Since then, he's lost 3 times, one being to a still unbeaten Joe.

Then again, I don't want to come off as a Calzaghe cheerleader either.

[S.G.]

I just see the two as neck and neck their whole career. It makes you wonder why in the hell these two didn't meet 5 years ago. Hopkins has done wonders for himself in the twilight of his career, but I still have to give the edge to Joe. Only because Hopkins went his entire career with only two losses until Taylor. Since then, he's lost 3 times, one being to a still unbeaten Joe.

Then again, I don't want to come off as a Calzaghe cheerleader either.

the fact that's Joe's unbeaten is a huge ***ell in his crown, but it's not the be-all and end-all

Hopkins fighting (and beating) more big names gives his record the advantage at the end of the day

[nathan_nall]

the fact that's Joe's unbeaten is a huge ***ell in his crown, but it's not the be-all and end-all

Hopkins fighting (and beating) more big names gives his record the advantage at the end of the day

Good point. I recognize more names on Hopkins' resume than I do Joe's. But that has more to do with me only becoming a huge boxing fan 3 or 4 years ago and being from the U.S. than it does with a huge difference in levels of competition.

I do know that Super Middleweight went years without a stacked line-up. This appears to be the best the division has been in a very long time.

[Technical_Skill]

I sort agree. I don't know about how "skilled" he is. I think he is very natural and instinctive.

One his instructional video I don't get the impression Joe knows what he's talking about in terms of tactics and strategy. I don't know if this is because he's simply a poor teacher/communicator or not but I think it's just a natural thing to him. He just does it. He throws the right punches at the right time.

I don't get a high skill impression from him in that sense. However, I also think this has a lot to do with having a goofball Super Mario brothers Character as a trainer.

Same old ****ing arguments on NSB, here goes.....

Yes you are correct, Skills wise i have always found Calzaghe suspect, because he makes many amatuer mistakes during fights, mistakes that he has managed to cover up with quick hands and reflexes.

Hopkins was the one guy around who had a chance against Calzaghe, (I thought Hopkins did enough personally) he technically was on point but ran out of stamina. For me its never been a question of calzaghe being so great, its been a question of the right guy not getting a shot a calzaghe at the right time.

The guy who beats calzaghe needs to follow a similar blueprint to Hopkins, Parry the Jab and dont stand parallel to the lead, when hopkins was doing this by circling Calzaghe, Joe didnt have an answer but to simply throw as many punches as possible, he look desperate at times in that fight.

For me, there is a big question over wether Calzaghe can beat a top fighter by picking him off with single shots, alot of his victories of late are coming from this pitter pat crap which alot of it doesnt land clean, its very clever because judges these days are so ****ing dum they cant tell the difference between landed and blocked punches, so he picks up those rounds for free.

For me he just hasnt faced a fighter that can make him pay for his mistakes, a fighter that can parry the jab, circle, lead, then clinch him before he does the pitter patter would give him fits, and then we would really see if he could come up with a plan B. He fights off instinct, when jones and hopkins were able to make him fight tactically, they both had him in trouble.

[dfwtx]

This acually makes more sense than the Toney post.

[S.G.]

Good point. I recognize more names on Hopkins' resume than I do Joe's. But that has more to do with me only becoming a huge boxing fan 3 or 4 years ago and being from the U.S. than it does with a huge difference in levels of competition.

I do know that Super Middleweight went years without a stacked line-up. This appears to be the best the division has been in a very long time.

well i'm British and Calzaghe was the first fighter i ever followed, and like i said, i feel Hopkins' standard of opposition definitely tops Joe's

i do feel Calzaghe's title defenses are underrated by a lot of people though, some tough guys and good resume bolsterers on there, even if they aren't exactly stars

[bsrizpac]

This acually makes more sense than the Toney post.

Which part. The toney post i made in the beginning was a ****ing parody.

[bsrizpac]

well i'm British and Calzaghe was the first fighter i ever followed, and like i said, i feel Hopkins' standard of opposition definitely tops Joe's

i do feel Calzaghe's title defenses are underrated by a lot of people though, some tough guys and good resume bolsterers on there, even if they aren't exactly stars

I have listed the names he faced IN HIS PRIME between 98 and 2006 (Shot Eubanks) and (Green Lacy) which is what most Joe fans claim is his prime. I have yet to have anyone refute this list as a bunch of good names or even good fighters. 80 percent are garbage. Some are average. 1 or 2 are slightly above average/ or good (Reid/Sheika)