Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. - At Zero Tolerance

[PoetryInMotion]

CAN U GUYS IMAGINE "VICIOUS ORTIZ vs CHAVEZ JR" All in favor say I.....
Now this would be the fight that would put one of them in the map!!!
there both young, talented and hungry for succes. LET ME KNOW WHAT U GUYS THINK? a Hell of a fight....

Victor fights at 140lbs and Chavez Jr. at 156lbs.

[JakeNDaBox]

what is the name of the Irish kid that Manuel stewart was working with or still is? I think he'll be a great test for chavez jr to see what his made off...
until he fight somebody known he will always be questionable!!! why not remove all doubt and find out? come on Bob I think is time!!!!

Andy Lee... and I couldn't disagree more. Lee's a natural middleweight and way too big for even most of the best at 154, never mind some on Jr's level.

[anonymousboxing]

..he hasn't climbed up the ladder this year. The competition level has been - at best - about the same as it's been, using Rey Sanchez as the barometer. Yet all he's done this year is go through the motions....

I understand your overall point, and it's good that you're behind him, so take into consideration something Lennox Lewis said about Andre Berto earlier in his career. He said he was glad that they weren't throwing Andre to the 'wolves' so quickly JUST BECAUSE he beat a certain level of opposition. It takes a variety of adversaries in each level to polish up in preparation for taking the next step up.
And I agree with that.
Patience amigo. You agree he has time.


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[The Scientist]

you forget to realize that all this about chavez is just bull**** from the media and him expecting him to be just like his dad. All those guys i mentioned are giving a free pass for their losses since they weren't born to a legendary father.

The medias opinion of those fighters is much more complacent because their loses didn't come from guppy competition. Further more they didn't take the shortcut to stardom they had to work hard for it by fighting tough competition early in their career, these fighter's are leagues above Chavez Jr. ability and so is the competition they lost against, and if the competition is not sub par the Media will praise both fighters. The truth is every fighter is given **** when they have an off night. Chavez Jr. doesn't have any loses yet, but should at least have two, he has had a few very bad performances against fighters that are suppose to be stepping stones for him, tomato cans, cannon fodder, etc... and has been given gift wins because of his name.

Chavez Jr. is very well off financially, he goes back home knowing he didn't deserve a win but it will be fine, because he doesn't have to make a living getting punched in the head. What about the other guy? the guy that doesn't have a name, the nobody that works hard to make sure he racks up the wins to make just enough to keep his family fed, cover the rent and secure his future after the sanctioning leeches take from his meager earnings. A fighter in this situation doesn't deserve to get robbed.

I'm aware of the situation enough to realize that Chavez Jr. is being rushed too quick and in my opinion will never exceed his father's legend, he's just not born to do it. I don't get influenced by anybodies opinion of a fighter much less the Medias. I make my own judgments, and if Chavez Jr. beats Matt Vanda convincingly on Saturday my assessment of him will start to change.

[EDD1]

you forget to realize that all this about chavez is just bull**** from the media and him expecting him to be just like his dad. All those guys i mentioned are giving a free pass for their losses since they weren't born to a legendary father.

true, thank you

[JakeNDaBox]

Let's say for the sake of argument that you're right.
He doesn't look as good this year than he did last year.
What does that prove?

That he's 'lost' talent? Stopped progressing?

Nah, perhaps the the higher he gets on the latter of this division the "worse" he ends up looking.
But Who DOESN'T as they approach the top?

But here's the problem with your claim - and really the point I was trying to make: he hasn't climbed up the ladder this year. The competition level has been - at best - about the same as it's been, using Rey Sanchez as the barometer. Yet all he's done this year is go through the motions.

Therefore, the leveling off as he progresses alibi doesn't fit in this case. And that's what I was getting at - that even if he comes in prepared and easily gets past Vanda (which I hope and believe will be the case), those who are being sold that this kid's for real won't want to hear that yet another Matt Vanda or Jose Celaya is on tap for his first fight in 2009, especially if his fights are headlining $40 PPV shows.

More hours in the ring IS a new element let alone the adversity he's gone through. The experience of resilience in the ring WILL be an extra asset for bouts to come.
But Let's say JR HASN'T added any 'new elements to his game....

I agree, but it's only an asset if he's training accordingly. That hasn't been the case in 2008.

...Let's elevate your argument to a perfect case against Chavez.

Let's instead stop right here. I'm not trying to create an argument AGAINST Chavez. I'm a fan. I want to see him excel. But all I ask for is progression, no matter how subtle.

If we broke down every undeniable flaw Chavez has and reasoned that he doesn't have it in him to get past his current #8 WBC ranking, we can still hang on to the hope of his youth!

He's 22 years old! He's got time to lose, comeback, make MAJOR adjustments, and he's got a SUPERB teacher in his corner who can cultivate him in the years to come.

And at the end of his career, EVEN IF JR NEVER reaches #1 in his division, we're STILL gonna witness the "tragedy" of shoes too big to fill in his father's legend. It's all GOOD for boxing!

Enjoy the suspense of this story of a 'flawed understudy', and pin point assets in a boxer rather than flaws. Even IF the story doesn't go OUR way,
cause the ending might actually be good.

I agree that youth is on his side. Again, my only beef with him thus far is that he spent all year going through the motions - this is the point in his career where he should literally be improving leaps and bounds with each fight, or at least every couple of fights.

But when you're being encouraged to call out Hector Camacho Jr in what should be the beginning of your optimal prime, then it's an indication that exploitation is still being placed in favor of advancement.

Again I say, I hope Chavez beats the crap out of Vanda this year, and goes steps up to at least fringe contenders in 2009. Anything less really won't prove much, and as he enters year six and inches toward his mid-20's, the lack of an ammy background becomes less and less of an alibi.

[Catrin]

what is the name of the Irish kid that Manuel stewart was working with or still is? I think he'll be a great test for chavez jr to see what his made off...
until he fight somebody known he will always be questionable!!! why not remove all doubt and find out? come on Bob I think is time!!!!

[anonymousboxing]

I agree with your post for the most part, but unsure of the first statement

I'm on record as being one of the few in the media who's supported Chavez Jr. for the most part, and that he needs to be judged on his own, not the ridiculous expectation of living up to his father straight out the box.

I've seen tremendous growth in his first four years as a pro, leading up to and including the Rey Sanchez fight. But there's no denying that he and Arum have spent all of this year ****ing the dog.

Can you say in any of his three fights in 2008 that he's looked any better than how he ended 2007?

Let's say for the sake of argument that you're right.
He doesn't look as good this year than he did last year.
What does that prove?

That he's 'lost' talent? Stopped progressing?

Nah, perhaps the the higher he gets on the latter of this division the "worse" he ends up looking.
But Who DOESN'T as they approach the top?

That he's added new elements to his game?

More hours in the ring IS a new element let alone the adversity he's gone through. The experience of resilience in the ring WILL be an extra asset for bouts to come.
But Let's say JR HASN'T added any 'new elements to his game....

That his 2008 campaign hasn't been straight exploitation - from the marketing right down to Chavez Jr's training habits for each of his fights?

...Let's elevate your argument to a perfect case against Chavez.
If we broke down every undeniable flaw Chavez has and reasoned that he doesn't have it in him to get past his current #8 WBC ranking, we can still hang on to the hope of his youth!

He's 22 years old! He's got time to lose, comeback, make MAJOR adjustments, and he's got a SUPERB teacher in his corner who can cultivate him in the years to come.

And at the end of his career, EVEN IF JR NEVER reaches #1 in his division, we're STILL gonna witness the "tragedy" of shoes too big to fill in his father's legend. It's all GOOD for boxing!

Enjoy the suspense of this story of a 'flawed understudy', and pin point assets in a boxer rather than flaws. Even IF the story doesn't go OUR way,
cause the ending might actually be good.


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[KJB]

CHAVEZ JR VS VANES IS WHAT I WANT TO SEE!!!!!

That sort of fight isnt going to happen right now, I dont think. Vanes can box pretty well, has a pretty good jab and good power, they arent ready to put Chavez Jr in with someone like that, not yet.
I know it gets mentioned over and over again, but he has no am fights. They are gonna continue to bring him along slowly, even if he does give us an impressive performance in the rematch with Vanda.
Same can be said for Vanes, while his opponents have been a little more live, to an extent. Both guys are only 22 years old, Arum isnt going to be hurrying them into dangerous fights.

[MANGLER]

Jr has shown talent in his fights, but it's about time for him to step his game up. Berto looks like he's finally gonna do it next year, now it's Chavez' turn.