How could Roy Jones Junior be the best of this era?

[shawn_]

I understand the inside game better than you think, here's the thing though, the problem I think you have is that you look at how greatly skilled he was on the inside, but don't seem to realize if not allowed to play his game, then he would be forced to box with an outside fighter/slickster, which is why he lost fights, as well as lack of dedication.

He was great at what he did, but couldn't play another's game as well at all. I understand your appreciation for his inside skill, as being as skilled an inside fighter as himself(to move from MW to HW fighting there, all on skill) is really something else, but what I don't think you're wanting to grasp is how he could be taken out of his game.

No you do not, and that is one of the things that is holding you back, I use to think the same way. I thought I understood the inside game. I wasn't until I truly did that I realized how wrong I was about many inside fighters.

You have demonstrated you lack of understanding quite a few times, such as when you mis-characterized Roberto Duran as a strait ahead mawling fighter with nothing on his mind besides knocking you out.

[-Hyperion-]

Edgar has a Beristain style, don't you think? Not the typical Mexican fighter.

yeah, kinda, that guy should have only 1 loss according to my bro's ex-trainer

he says he was robbed vs solis, nino and bustos.....because sosa was a part time boxer(he was a cab driver) with no future and those guys were prospects with powerful managers...those 4 losses are all very controversial....but i havent been able to get a tape...

[shawn_]

No you do not, and that is one of the things that is holding you back, I use to think the same way. I thought I understood the inside game. I wasn't until I truly did that I realized how wrong I was about many inside fighters.

You have demonstrated you lack of understanding quite a few times, such as when you mis-characterized Roberto Duran as a strait ahead mawling fighter with nothing on his mind besides knocking you out.

James Toney was a great outside fighter, the reason being, he has long arms and supremely fast hands, just like Floyd Mayweather. While he was more agressive, he could get up on his toes and move. The way he fought was alot like how Mayweather fought Zab Judah.

[Azteca]

lol @ this clown.

He was probably running his mouth when Toney was at heavyweight.

he was a fat, old, 36 year old middleweight yet there are people that actually believed he was a viable heavyweight because he beat Jirov (who since has proven it wasn't that big a deal), a totally shot Holyfield & beat Ruiz while on steroids.

It's amazing what slipping a few punches at hw, can do for your career?

Shawn....lets do some history.

Tell me what people were saying about Toney before his win over Jirov?

Major dissapointment, yeah?

[Sweet Pete]

No you do not, and that is one of the things that is holding you back, I use to think the same way. I thought I understood the inside game. I wasn't until I truly did that I realized how wrong I was about many inside fighters.

You have demonstrated you lack of understanding quite a few times, such as when you mis-characterized Roberto Duran as a strait ahead mawling fighter with nothing on his mind besides knocking you out.

I never characterized him as that at all. You quoted me as saying that, and then I explained myself to you. Duran also was one who had trouble with movers/slicksters, but he was much more than that description you just gave of him. He was one of the most versatile in-fighters of all time. Against any style other than the most skilled of movers/slickters, he was damn near unbeatable in his prime.

Again, my point is not what you think of my understanding of the inside game, it is how you fail to acknowledge my points on the fact that Toney had a great inside game, one you respect a lot, but the fact that his outside game and his ability to adapt to other styles wasn't that good. And I'm sorry, but blaming that on "lack of dedication" is absurd.

[shawn_]

lol @ this clown.

He was probably running his mouth when Toney was at heavyweight.

he was a fat, old, 36 year old middleweight yet there are people that actually believed he was a viable heavyweight because he beat Jirov (who since has proven it wasn't that big a deal), a totally shot Holyfield & beat Ruiz while on steroids.

It's amazing what slipping a few punches at hw, can do for your career?

Shawn....lets do some history.

Tell me what people were saying about Toney before his win over Jirov?

Major dissapointment, yeah?

Toney was never a viable heavyweight. He was never even a viable cruiserweight. He perhaps could have been a viable Light Heavyweight but that is a stretch. James Toney sould have never fought above 168. If he had the discipline of Hopkins to stay down at 160lb we never would have heard of Bernard Hopkins as James Toney would have been holding onto those titles.

[Sweet Pete]

James Toney was a great outside fighter, the reason being, he has long arms and supremely fast hands, just like Floyd Mayweather. While he was more agressive, he could get up on his toes and move. The way he fought was alot like how Mayweather fought Zab Judah.

You base his outside game on his dimensions, rather than what he showed? What fights did he show a great outside game against a good outside fighter? The difference between he and Floyd is movement and quickness of feet, not quickness of hands.

[K-Nan]

yeah, kinda, that guy should have only 1 loss according to my bro's ex-trainer

he says he was robbed vs solis, nino and bustos.....because sosa was a part time boxer(he was a cab driver) with no future and those guys were prospects with powerful managers...those 4 losses are all very controversial....but i havent been able to get a tape...

I usually don't put too much emphasis on early losses for Mexican fighters. It seems like alot of you guys just need to get into a rhtyhm as your careers progress. Interesting to see that he got robbed so much though.

[-EX-]

Roy Jones was the face of boxing in the 90's(especially late 90's). Bernard was the man for a little while but he wasn't as popular as Roy. I like Bernard but that's the truth. Right now it is Floyd's time.

[Azteca]

You base his outside game on his dimensions, rather than what he showed? What fights did he show a great outside game against a good outside fighter? The difference between he and Floyd is movement and quickness of feet, not quickness of hands.

Good points Pete. Ten bucks says shawn wont acknowledge it.

He has been really overated the past few years because of his move up in weight.

Shawn didn't acknowledge my point, but people thought Toney was a dissapointment. At one time he was a very promising fighter and p4p #2. The loss to THadzi, Johnson, Tiberi among others (i know some losses weren't 'losses' but you get my drift) will haunt him forever.

I love his counter punching and he's just so relaxed with it.

I think Toney's lack of height actually helps him against the bigger guys coz they have to reach down for him & he's always crouching & rolling with the counter ready to go.

Against the quicker guys....he got slapped around pretty good. Nunn and Griffin to name a few. Not to mention Roy himself.

Just something shawn fails to see....