Why people are so biased towards Ali era?

[mrbig1]

Oh boy here we go again. You must ask yourself how was Clay rated as #1 before the Liston fight. Was it wins over Copper and Jones? No Liston cleaned out the HW division before he fought Clay. How about Fraizer? He too cleaned out he HW division. When Ali beat Foreman Ali was past his prime. Now to Norton. I agree Norton was not all that. But he could handle a boxer like Ali, Young, and Holmes. Put Norton in with a big puncher and it's lights out. Like Foreman Shavers and Cooney. Why does anyone talk about Spinks? Ali was way past his best. 3 of the fighters in this era won gold medals for the U.S. It should be four, but I won't count Spinks. Peace brothers and sisters.

[dan-b]

Mostly because in the Ali era they actually got on with fighting each other rather than talking on social media.

[WillieWild114]

I meat dont get me wrong but beat Ali=that makes your elite fighter other guys struggles against someone=look this guy struggled with some bum but when Ali struggles against someone=Omg ATG

Leon Spinks was journeyman yet you Ali fans hype him like he was different than mcbride what makes Spinks great fighter and Mcbride journeyman.

Lyle, Young Folley, Norton are sure not different than Ruddock, Bruno, Grant, if were being honest.

60s 70s heavyweights are not technically much different than today's scrubs in reality.

What makes that fighters different because they put great fight vs Ali and get praised and mytholized as a ATGS someone put good fight against today's scrubs or vs Mike Tyson =that opponent sucks nothing special 0 credit

That guys werent that skilled all were mostly some sluggers compare to 80s 90s HWS in terms of skills 70s HWS are not even close.

C level fighters like Chuvalo are mytholized as a great because they fough in that golden era but todays champions or in Holmes era are bums.

Norton my boy don't deserved even to be names as a great fighter let Alone to be in Hall Of Fame but again he make his name by beating Ali.

In fact most of these guys are nothing special at all compared to some other solid contenders and heavyweight champions they are hyped because they put tough fight vs Ali someone like cooper was seen as a great fighter Spinks too Ali simple wasn't that great these guys just are so overrated

Take Ali out of the picture and the guys career is nothing special.In fact Ali was special that he actually uplifts other people to mythic proportions.

Joe Frazier: don't get me wrong but he is very overrated for me That trilogy is his one and only claim to fame.Without it,nobody would remember him in the slightest.


He

lost this trilogy decisively.And despite losing this trilogy,Frazier is usually remembered above far greater fighters than himself.Without that trilogy,he wouldn't even make it into the hall of fame.



Legitimate greats like Michael Spinks are all but forgotten except for some highlight package of young phemom at his peak.who dominated everyone in LHW division.

The 90’s heavyweights were at peak with skill and athleticism ! But what makes the 70’s the golden heavyweight era is the best fought the best 90% of the time, the rounds were longer, the fighters had alot of determination to get up from knockdowns,some of the hardest hitters are from that era, and they aren’t the highest level when it comes to skill but close to it. That’s why the 70’s the best era for heavyweight boxing.

[max baer]

I meat dont get me wrong but beat Ali=that makes your elite fighter other guys struggles against someone=look this guy struggled with some bum but when Ali struggles against someone=Omg ATG

Leon Spinks was journeyman yet you Ali fans hype him like he was different than mcbride what makes Spinks great fighter and Mcbride journeyman.

Lyle, Young Folley, Norton are sure not different than Ruddock, Bruno, Grant, if were being honest.

60s 70s heavyweights are not technically much different than today's scrubs in reality.

What makes that fighters different because they put great fight vs Ali and get praised and mytholized as a ATGS someone put good fight against today's scrubs or vs Mike Tyson =that opponent sucks nothing special 0 credit

That guys werent that skilled all were mostly some sluggers compare to 80s 90s HWS in terms of skills 70s HWS are not even close.

C level fighters like Chuvalo are mytholized as a great because they fough in that golden era but todays champions or in Holmes era are bums.

Norton my boy don't deserved even to be names as a great fighter let Alone to be in Hall Of Fame but again he make his name by beating Ali.

In fact most of these guys are nothing special at all compared to some other solid contenders and heavyweight champions they are hyped because they put tough fight vs Ali someone like cooper was seen as a great fighter Spinks too Ali simple wasn't that great these guys just are so overrated

Take Ali out of the picture and the guys career is nothing special.In fact Ali was special that he actually uplifts other people to mythic proportions.

Joe Frazier: don't get me wrong but he is very overrated for me That trilogy is his one and only claim to fame.Without it,nobody would remember him in the slightest.


He

lost this trilogy decisively.And despite losing this trilogy,Frazier is usually remembered above far greater fighters than himself.Without that trilogy,he wouldn't even make it into the hall of fame.



Legitimate greats like Michael Spinks are all but forgotten except for some highlight package of young phemom at his peak.who dominated everyone in LHW division.

you know my friend i truly believe that the top guys in every era were as good as each other. Men seemed tougher in the early last century as life was tougher. Many feel eastern europeans are tougher today as their lives are tougher. I think that each era had top guys who would be in a similar place no matter when they lived. Also, we build on what went before like no boxer could pull off the rope a dope now because we learn about it. each athlete learns from previous champs. I always find my praise goes to a man who does something new, something no man has done before. Maybe Fury could dominate two eras and no heavyweight has really done that properly.

[Hooded Terror]

I meat dont get me wrong but beat Ali=that makes your elite fighter other guys struggles against someone=look this guy struggled with some bum but when Ali struggles against someone=Omg ATG

Leon Spinks was journeyman yet you Ali fans hype him like he was different than mcbride what makes Spinks great fighter and Mcbride journeyman.

Lyle, Young Folley, Norton are sure not different than Ruddock, Bruno, Grant, if were being honest.

60s 70s heavyweights are not technically much different than today's scrubs in reality.

What makes that fighters different because they put great fight vs Ali and get praised and mytholized as a ATGS someone put good fight against today's scrubs or vs Mike Tyson =that opponent sucks nothing special 0 credit

That guys werent that skilled all were mostly some sluggers compare to 80s 90s HWS in terms of skills 70s HWS are not even close.

C level fighters like Chuvalo are mytholized as a great because they fough in that golden era but todays champions or in Holmes era are bums.

Norton my boy don't deserved even to be names as a great fighter let Alone to be in Hall Of Fame but again he make his name by beating Ali.

In fact most of these guys are nothing special at all compared to some other solid contenders and heavyweight champions they are hyped because they put tough fight vs Ali someone like cooper was seen as a great fighter Spinks too Ali simple wasn't that great these guys just are so overrated

Take Ali out of the picture and the guys career is nothing special.In fact Ali was special that he actually uplifts other people to mythic proportions.

Joe Frazier: don't get me wrong but he is very overrated for me That trilogy is his one and only claim to fame.Without it,nobody would remember him in the slightest.


He

lost this trilogy decisively.And despite losing this trilogy,Frazier is usually remembered above far greater fighters than himself.Without that trilogy,he wouldn't even make it into the hall of fame.



Legitimate greats like Michael Spinks are all but forgotten except for some highlight package of young phemom at his peak.who dominated everyone in LHW division.

You have made some very astute points. I could even go a step or two further relative to a few big-name Ali opponents, and the take, which is subjective (yet water worthy) would annoy or possibly enrage many hardcore fans of the sport's long history. For this thread, I won't.

The golden period for heavyweights was the 1970's. Do I believe Ruddock, Bruno and Grant would be competitive if somehow taken back in time to say 1973-1978? Yes and no. They would have their victories but they would also experience defeats. They would have had to be more active as big-name ranked contenders than what was required of them in their respective periods of activity (which was Christmas season shopping busy compared to the activity level put forth today). None of it would be a walk-over, but I hand the edge to the fighters that could step on the gas later in a contest where big blows were exchanged throughout. There's a reason the physiques of conditioned heavyweights of the 70's differ significantly from those from the 90's. There's a reason a smooth muscled 6'3" heavyweight went into a contest often between 210-215lbs as opposed to 240lbs-plus. Look at Larry Holmes in his 30's. He fought anywhere from 210 to 217 in his prime and just beyond. No beach body. No muscleman. He could fight hard into the 15th round of a championship contest. Should there be a Super Heavyweight division as tabled 20 years ago by Max Kellerman and others? Maybe. But first lets see fighters pare off the extra pounds and fight proficiently if not harder for 3 min per round. Back in 1994 Rid**** Bowe was heavily criticized for going into his 1st title defense at 243lbs, up a whopping eight pounds from his previous contest, a scant two and a half months later. Back in the 70's that extra baggage would have drawn even more criticism, but the schedule would have fit. Today fat or over muscled heavyweights abound. Not good for one appearance per year, two at best.

Joe Frazier? He had a fine enough reign until Foreman. He took all of his disadvantages and worked them into success in a style not predicated to a long fruitful career, against far bigger men, many with advantages in speed and athleticism. Don't undersell the value of his achievements and reign because of a trilogy and the neon lights associated. If there is just one all-time heavyweight fantasy fight I could make it would be a 15-round contest between Smoke and Rocky Marciano.

There are fewer throwback trainers today than in the 70's. We still had many in the 80's and 90's, but with each successive decade the pool emptied. Manny Steward left us a decade back. Before that Eddie Futch. Bill Miller and George Benton are gone. Others as well. There is but a handful left today, to say nothing of a greatly diminished amateur pool of talent coming our way.

Overall, a higher standard was expected and produced back in the Ali days.

[Marchegiano]

Not sure Spinks is in the Ali era perse.

[Rockin']

Before that Eddie Futch. Bill Miller and George Benton are gone. Others as well. There is but a handful left today, to say nothing of a greatly diminished amateur pool of talent coming our way.

Overall, a higher standard was expected and produced back in the Ali days.

I was refereeing and judging the ams years ago and had noticed our talent pool was getting a bit thin. There were still some sharp amateurs being trained by a knowlegable eye and mind but they were becoming harder and harder to find. Both the trainers and the sharp boxers.

Our lack of success at the Olympics in recent time tells the story.

I had the pleasure of being able to spend good time with Bill Miller after Galaxy. That guy was great, the stories that he had and then his knowledge of the art. One cool man. It saddened me when I heard that he had passed. Another one of our great trainers gone. ................Rockin'

[QueensburyRules]

well you gotta know about the era if you plan on judging it. Ali was sufferring from parkinsons disease when he fought Spinks. Do you judge Mike Tyson based off his fight with Danny Williams?

Wladmir got slept by Brewster, do you judge Wladmir by him laying face first down on the canvas?

- - Drugged by DKing while pitching an easy shutout over Brewster who was a terrible boxer. In short, you're a poor judge of boxing if that means anything more than it was.

[Zaroku]

well you gotta know about the era if you plan on judging it. Ali was sufferring from parkinsons disease when he fought Spinks. Do you judge Mike Tyson based off his fight with Danny Williams?

Wladmir got slept by Brewster, do you judge Wladmir by him laying face first down on the canvas?

You bring up interesting questions

respect

I am kinda stuck in the Duran, Hagler, Leonard era

nostalgia

marquez was a great Mexican champion

Mexican boxers are in my opinion the best

when a Japanese guy the lil Mexican

when Zaragoza lost to Erik Morales

daniel knew his reign was over

[b Murphington]

Heavyweights back then didn’t have the options for sports that they do now. Any big athlete today is going to become a basketball player or a football player. Boxing, especially in USA, was bigger back then. Just look at the American talent pool now for heavyweights. It’s thinner.

That being said, athletes in general are better now than they were back then. We have more knowledge of nutrition, training methods, accessibility to training. The only thing you might say is the boxer back then was more determined or more committed. Todays athletes are distracted by social media and smartphones, things that boxers of the 70’s didn’t have to deal with.

I think todays top heavyweights would be competitive in the 70’s. Especially looking at the general size of heavyweights now. They’re bigger now than they were in the 70’s. Plus, the power in the heavyweight division is the equalizer. Anyone can be put to sleep with 1 punch, in any era of heavyweights.