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The top 15 GREATEST BOXERS OF ALL TIME

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  • Originally posted by Lomadeaux View Post
    This can't be real..........
    Take a trip over to BoxRec and see for yourself...


    While you're at it, you can go to YouTube and actually see him fight for yourself. Instead of echoing the opinions of others - which are most likely themselves blindly repeated, you can actually forumalte your own opinions.

    while your at it, find me the footage where Robinson does anything on par with Walker's performances against Loughran and Sharkey.

    Or the fights where Robinson demonstrates the same perfection as Eder Jofre or Wilfredo Gomez.


    Dude, I love helping young misguided kids find their way. Don't worry about wasting my time, you're not. I believe in you. You got a ways to go, but I am sure, with a little hardwork, you can get yourself there.

    Comment


    • In no order:

      Ali
      SRL
      Duran
      Armstrong
      SRR
      Greb
      Hagler
      JCC
      Foreman
      Holyfield
      Tunney
      Moore
      Louis
      Monzon
      Pep

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
        And clearly you have never seen him fight, nor reviewed his record. It's cool you're good at parroting other peoples' opinions... but wouldn;t it be nice to be respected, instead?



        And almost got KO'd by Atie Fookin Levine in the process.

        I get it, KO'ing such remarkable legends as Freddie Wilson (15-29), Eddie Finazzo (39-31), Sidney Miller (12-25), Freddie Flores (18-27-9), Jimmy Mandell (8-11), Billy Furone (31-19), Izzy Janazzo (58-35), Maurice Arnauklt (47-32-9), Dick Banner (Debut), Frankie Wallace (33-55), Ted Olla (35-18), Jean Wanes (24-33-1), Don Ellis (31-22) , Billy Brown (61-30) is really, really impressive stuff! I mean, where did he even get the COURAGE to enter the ring to fight these guys in the first place!? Entering the ring with such ferocious monsters whose reputation has echoed through the generations was a success in itself, forget about the knock out. Really, I can't think of enough superlatives to characterize that sublime and unparalleled list of fistic marvels.

        But wait, did he KO little Sammy Angott? How about Marty Servo? Did Docusen go down? What about Ossie Harris (41-46-5) in their 10 Rounder? Surely he KO'd Holly Mims... well, what about Georgie Abrams? Of course Robinson had his way with him!? He didn't need LaMotta to be desiccated and shop-worn to stop him did he?

        Please, tell me! You have all the answers it seems



        Literally!? Maybe only use words if you know their meaning? If so many people saw him, I am sure you can provide the evidence that they said what you claim.

        I do believe that the fact that he traverses both the Pre-WWII and post-war eras that his legend was bound to become the most famed. Robinson was extraordinarily entertaining. Baseball was the only sport to compete with Boxing, and few of the entertainment mediums we take for granted today existed in the past. Fights could be transmitted by radio. Society, in general, was faaaaaar more violent. Boxing wasn't just about who was the best, it was entertainment. It was soap opera, it was a night at the movies, it was watercooler talk before there were watercoolers, it was indescribably huge. Watching fights like Graham-Gavilan and Archer-Griffith we see that winning wasn't really about being the better fighter, it was about being the better showman. Robinson clearly defined that, not that the savage KO's hurt.

        We saw something similar when MMA was being kept alive in JPN: guys like Wanderlei Silva and Bob Sapp were a clear step above the Kimbo Slice set, but their records were beefed up with mismatches which only served to showcase their penchant for brutality. Eventually, they ran into Mirko CorCop who exposed them, but only to build his story.

        Clancy and Dundee saw Robinson first hand. Their work speaks for itself, they built fighters who made sure another Robinson didn't happen.



        Same as people today talking about Jones and Mayweather. Doesn't mean they are right.

        Same as people had regarding Canzoneri, Benny Leonard, Jack Dempsey, Bob Fitzsimmons... what makes Robinson's era any different than his predecessors'?




        Oh yeah? Like Joey Maxim?

        How about Charlie Burley? Marcel Cerdan? Archie Moore? Ezzard Charles? Was there ever even talk of him meeting Rocky Marciano?

        He was a full blown Middleweight even before his first Welterweight title fight. Were Walker and Greb cutting weight to beat up on Welterweights when in their prime? They were fighting some of the most skilled and accomplished Light Heavyweights of all-time.

        Look at my list, you'll see fighters with much more impressive records than Robinson's. Stop depending on lore, and actually do your own research.
        Iím not sure how old you are. But thereís no reason to continue this with someone whoís grabbing at straws trying to defend their argument...

        That the greatest pugilist of all time was over rated.

        This is hard to look at

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Lomadeaux View Post
          Iím not sure how old you are. But thereís no reason to continue this with someone whoís grabbing at straws trying to defend their argument...

          That the greatest pugilist of all time was over rated.

          This is hard to look at
          So now facts are straws?


          Please tell me which fight I need to watch to see Robinson was better than Walker. I'd love to see it.

          Comment


          • I like that Chavez is getting love, but what about Whitaker!?!? Or the other, probably better, Mexican greats? Canto, Ortiz, Zarate, Olivares, Marquez... SANCHEZ?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
              So now facts are straws?


              Please tell me which fight I need to watch to see Robinson was better than Walker. I'd love to see it.
              Please watch the LaMotta & Turpin rematches. You are really showing your ignorance here.

              I honestly canít believe Iím discussing this with you.

              Thereís barely anybody in the sport that would argue that Robinson isnít the greatest fighter of all time.

              Comment


              • This **** is getting embarrassing. It’s not even comical anymore.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Lomadeaux View Post
                  Please watch the LaMotta & Turpin rematches. You are really showing your ignorance here.

                  I honestly canít believe Iím discussing this with you.

                  Thereís barely anybody in the sport that would argue that Robinson isnít the greatest fighter of all time.

                  Hahahahahaha!

                  Are you an idiot?

                  What is wrong with you!?!?!?

                  You know there are other ways of getting attention, right? POSITIVE attention!


                  Turpin wasn't a great fighter. He was skilled, and awkward, but not at all an ATG. Maybe you could argue he didn't realize his full potential. But no one would put him on par with a Joey Archer type. Obviously Ray was pretty old, so I don't wanna go there. But guys like Pendar, they're more on Turpin's level.

                  Don't get me wrong, I love that fight. Great stuff. Probably better than anything Hagler did, and on par with most of Monzon's catalog. But you don't become the GOAT based on that performance. Not at all. clearly you're desperate. This is the same guys who several years earlier, in his supposed invincible prime, won a razor-thin decision over Georgie Abrams. Again, I don't want to be too critical, I'd rather give Ray the pass more often than not. But that fight is worth mentioning because there's a firewall defense that Ray's struggle at Middleweight are owed to his being past his prime. The Abrams and Levine fights show that Ray might have simply leveled out when he stepped up in competition, not unlike George Foreman. It certainly supports why Robinson struggled with Basillio, Fullmer and Maxim. Again, I am not suggesting those fights occurred under ideal circumstances. I am simply pointing out that Ray, like Foreman, really, really wanted to knock opponents out - to the extent that it came at his own ability to achieve greater success. The press considered Walker's defeat of Milligan superior to Robinson's over Turpin.

                  Am I being unfair? If anything, I am being generous to Ray.

                  You know where Ray WAS at his best? Against LaMotta. Jake probably won two of their fights, even if only narrowly, against the very best version of Robinson. Jake didn't wanna play ball with the mob, so he was going to lose those decisions not matter what. (Ray didn't either but he wasn't one of their boys and he made them lots of money anyway since he was a huge draw). I can accept that Ray won, but no one disputes that the fights were very close. The fight YOU reference featured a desiccated Jake LaMotta who was pretty much emotionally checked out. He still put on a fine performance, and his jab was enough to trouble Ray. This wasn't a Golovkin jab. Not at all. It definitely wasn't a Tommy Loughran jab. Nor did LaMotta really demonstrate any competent understanding of defensive footwork. LaMotta wasn't a bum, I don't want to go that far. But he wasn't the quality of fighter a guy called the GOAT should be held up as an example of achievement.

                  Really, Olson was his best win. Olson doesn't have a story that sells like Burley or LaMotta, so he goes forgotten. Ray really was savage in that fight. But Olson was no Mickey Walker. Not even close.


                  Walker's fights with Loughran, Sharkey, Uzcudun, McTigue, Rosenbloom, Risko and even his loss to Schmeling put him on a completely different tier than Robinson. The Hudkins fight shows he was more than just a reckless brawler, who ran face-first into punches. He could effectively fight off that backfoot.

                  But he's a naturally smaller man than Robinson, who chose to spend most of his career fighting (and often defeating) men MUCH better than Joey Maxim. Did I mention that he regulary fought and beat men better than Maxim? Do I need to say it again? I don't mind.... I am sure some of that decision to campaign above his natural weight class was based on his lack of discipline outside the ring. While indisputably deadgame unlike Robsinon, the dude loved the ladies and partying. And the ladies and Manhattan loved Walker. His midsection shows it. But he clearly made himself a competitive Light Heavyweight, and even Heavyweight. Remarkable stuff that Robinson couldn't even dream of accomplishing. In fact, his sole attempt in that pursuit lead to his retirement. When he returned, he continued to fight at Middleweight, preferring even to fight Welterweights rather than try himself again at 175 pounds.

                  And one last time. While I do believe Walker's feats of bravery commanded a tremendous following, I fully accept that Robinson was a more exciting performer. Look at the absolutely insane success of combat "sports" in Japan a couple decades ago - it was damn near blood sport. As much as real fans love skill, there's something extraordinarily satisfying about a knockout. Even if it's a mismatch, fans want to see a fight end violently and conclusively. I dunno if anyone ever fit that bill better than Robinson. Obviously the availability of quality footage has helped perpetuate his fame. As I pointed out earlier, he's one of the first guys to enjoy being regularly filmed. And although virtually all of his early work is lost, he lasted deep into a more modern era - providing plenty to sample from.

                  But being entertaining and fearsome is a different thing than being great. Remember what happened in Zaire!? It was the most fearsome puncher the Heavyweight division had ever seen who got laid out, while one of the weakest punchers that division has ever seen had his hand raised - and has since been esteemed "The Greatest". How did being fearsome punchers work out for Mac Foster, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers and Thad Spencer against little Jerry Quarry? Why didn't Foreman want to fight him? Why did he leave heaps of money on the floor in MSG to go fight Roman in Japan? But let's not glorify Jerry Quarry too much - have you seen his fights with Patterson, Ellis and Ali? Sure, there are excuses to be made on his behalf, but Quarry wasn't comfortable chasing down Boxers committed to staying on the backfoot. He just wasn't that entertaining when forced to be the one to lead. He wasn't as bad as the ridiculously over-glorified liston who preceded him, or the overly criticized Cooney who followed, but he's an example of a fighter who's reputation (and ability to put asses in seat) was built not so much on his overall greatness, but simply his ability to kick someone's ass when the situation was suitable to him. Maybe you don't rank Holyfield or Holmes over Quarry, but I have a strong suspicion you rank them over Quarry, despite the absence of comparable ass whoopin beatdowns to the ones that line Quarry's record. Any word on that?


                  Robinson's relative consistency, longevity and finishing ability were superior to Walker's. So I can see an argument being made for him from that angle, but Walker simply fought a ridiculously higher caliber of opposition and showed greater versatility. The latter, in these sort of debates, has to out-weigh the former.
                  Last edited by Rusty Tromboni; 09-19-2020, 10:56 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by Lomadeaux View Post

                    Thereís barely anybody in the sport that would argue that Robinson isnít the greatest fighter of all time.
                    hmmmm, I think Gil Clancy actually had something to say about that...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
                      Take a trip over to BoxRec and see for yourself...


                      While you're at it, you can go to YouTube and actually see him fight for yourself. Instead of echoing the opinions of others - which are most likely themselves blindly repeated, you can actually forumalte your own opinions.

                      while your at it, find me the footage where Robinson does anything on par with Walker's performances against Loughran and Sharkey.

                      Or the fights where Robinson demonstrates the same perfection as Eder Jofre or Wilfredo Gomez.


                      Dude, I love helping young misguided kids find their way. Don't worry about wasting my time, you're not. I believe in you. You got a ways to go, but I am sure, with a little hardwork, you can get yourself there.
                      I literally have zero words for this.

                      You can be arrested in certain parts of US for saying the **** you just said.

                      Comment

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