Who's Number 1: "Greatest Records"

[Southpaw Stinger]

Why? Ali retired, then came back. So by your logic Floyd Patterosn was never the champion because Marciano never lost. Hey, Marciano is still the champion today since he never lost in the ring yet. Or did he "vacate" the title when he died in 1969 to frazier? Anyway, my point is Spinks didn't have a belt, and I don't care if a boxing magazine still recognized him as the champion, it doesn't mean anything if he doesn't have any hardware to show for it. Trying to discredit Tyson as being the youngest hw champion is like trying to discredit Tiger Woods for achieving the Grand Slam, just because he didn't do it in one calendar year. It's all subjective, but when it comes down to it, Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champion in history, period!

it's not by my logic at all, it's by lineal logic. I was just stating the fact that ring magazine and many fans refused to accept mike as the champ until he beat spinks.

[brownpimp88]

I have to agree with butterfly on this one. Tyson had all 3 belts and he was fighting all the contenders, a magazine doesnt determine a champ, the actual organizations like wba, wbc, and ibf do it. Even back in the old days, there were orgs like nba, nysac and others.

Roy jones jr is going to be remembered as the 175 king from 1997-2003, not DM. Linear/ ring mag. dont determine who's better. The contenders that you beat and the belts you possess, does.

[Southpaw Stinger]

I have to agree with butterfly on this one. Tyson had all 3 belts and he was fighting all the contenders, a magazine doesnt determine a champ, the actual organizations like wba, wbc, and ibf do it. Even back in the old days, there were orgs like nba, nysac and others.

lineal has nothing to do with the magazine.

it seems ******, more so now than ever that there are 4 guys who can all claim to be heavyweight champion of the world. You can only truly be champ if you are the top guy in the division and no one else has a claim. Spinks was undefeated and held the title after beating Holmes. He went off fighting other contenders whilst Tyson collected the belts.

Both Tyson and Spinks had an equal claim at being heavyweight champ until they fought each other. Maybe Tyson was champ before then but he was only truely undisputed after he defeated spinks.

[brownpimp88]

lineal has nothing to do with the magazine.

it seems ******, more so now than ever that there are 4 guys who can all claim to be heavyweight champion of the world. You can only truly be champ if you are the top guy in the division and no one else has a claim. Spinks was undefeated and held the title after beating Holmes. He went off fighting other contenders whilst Tyson collected the belts.

Both Tyson and Spinks had an equal claim at being heavyweight champ until they fought each other. Maybe Tyson was champ before then but he was only truely undisputed after he defeated spinks.

Spinks was staying inactive and he wasnt fighting tucker, he chose to fight cooney instead. After tyson took bonecrusher and tucker's belt, i basically considered him the real champ.

I do agree that the ibf and wbo need to go away. 1960's-1983, was a good time frame, thats when it was only wba and wbc. Those are the only two that really matter.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Spinks was staying inactive and he wasnt fighting tucker, he chose to fight cooney instead. After tyson took bonecrusher and tucker's belt, i basically considered him the real champ.

I do agree that the ibf and wbo need to go away. 1960's-1983, was a good time frame, thats when it was only wba and wbc. Those are the only two that really matter.

indeed. Although the WBA has become corrupt as of late with all this super champ and interim champ ****. The IBF stripping guys for not fighting mandatory bums... what has the sport come too?

[butterfly1964]

it's not by my logic at all, it's by lineal logic. I was just stating the fact that ring magazine and many fans refused to accept mike as the champ until he beat spinks.

When then in that case, do you know who the real champion is right now? Gene Tunney.

[brownpimp88]

indeed. Although the WBA has become corrupt as of late with all this super champ and interim champ ****. The IBF stripping guys for not fighting mandatory bums... what has the sport come too?

The WBA is corrupt, but they are the prestigious org. Remember the WBA was the NBA, so it dates back to the 20s. Therefore it is the most important, even though wbc is being held in a higher regard these days. WBO has always been a joke, i never take thier title seriously.

[Southpaw Stinger]

When then in that case, do you know who the real champion is right now? Gene Tunney.

no, Lennox lewis. New lineagers are created by beating all top contenders and unifying. If spinks retired then Tyson would have been recognised anyway by beating the top contenders, it's just that while spinks was active Tysons reign was not absolute. sounds confusing? thats boxing.

Right now the title is vacant until someone unifies or by freak chance lennox comes back...

Originally Posted by brownpimp88
The WBA is corrupt, but they are the prestigious org. Remember the WBA was the NBA, so it dates back to the 20s. Therefore it is the most important, even though wbc is being held in a higher regard these days. WBO has always been a joke, i never take thier title seriously.

yeah I take the WBA and WBC the most serious out of the alpha belts. Although Wlad is argubly the best heavy out there at the moment and he holds the IBF.

there are like 18 sanctioning bodies today so it's a good job that only 4 are taken seriously...

[Brassangel]

Seeing as how Spinks wasn't fighting the other champions, and he took his championship from Holmes who was only in charge of an alphabet title, and it's also nearly impossible to get title fights scheduled quick enough to swing four of them together in less than a year and a half, Mike Tyson accomplished a remarkable feat. Besides, when the fight between Tyson and Berbick took place, it was for the belt that most people take seriously, even today. Also, they did announce that Mike Tyson would be the youngest to win "a" heavyweight championship. I don't think that given these and other circumstances, anybody seriously considered Spinks the co-champ with Tyson.

I also think that the post about Ali's span is a little wierd.

I think the multiple divisions really screw up this list. It also makes boxing suck today.

Nonetheless, good thread by butterfly.

[Mike Tyson77]

I think Tyson KO string (19) has been broken. I think Frank Bruno started his career 21-0 with 21 KO's, and Vitali Klitschko 27-0 with 27 KO's.