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John L. Sullivan

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  • #21
    Originally posted by butterfly1964
    If he had a brain, he would know that it's still wrong.
    Not fair, Butterfly. Blacks were freed from slavery a mere 15 years before John L. won the world title, so when he was a kid, Blacks were property in the south. You can't undo a lifetime of brainwashing. The brain is a computer which is fed information over time and computes and comes to conclusion through reason....and not all "computers" are equal. John L. had his opinions based on all of the input he'd collected over his lifetime from a variety of tainted and ignorant sources....and it was still socially accepted to look down on blacks, or negroes at that time.

    You can not expect John L. to be above the norm simply because we know now that it is wrong. There are children being raised racist today on pupose; and they've got 100 times the resources to the contrary that John L. had. It was only a mere 40 years ago that Marin Luther King Jr. began to awaken America's awareness.....and that was 80 years after Sullivan was champ.

    You are being unfair in your judgement and presumptions.

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    • #22
      Regardless of what you think of him as a human being, boxing owes more to him than just about any other fighter in history. From what I've heard, he was just about the first fighter to actually make a good living on fighting alone. Up until then, even the champions and top contenders at the time needed steady work on the side to be well of financially. Sullivan was the first boxer, perhaps even the first athlete, to appeal to a big cross section of the US, from the working class on up. He single handedly took boxing, a fringe sport for the poor, not far removed from how we view say dog or **** fighting today, and put it right up there with baseball as one of the most popular sports in the country.

      It takes a very, very unique person and athlete to accomplish something like that.

      Personally, I'm exciting about reading this book, as there's a lot about Sullivan I don't know, but I've always had a ton of respect for the guy. Without John L, boxing wouldn't be the same sport it is today.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Kid Achilles
        Regardless of what you think of him as a human being, boxing owes more to him than just about any other fighter in history. From what I've heard, he was just about the first fighter to actually make a good living on fighting alone. Up until then, even the champions and top contenders at the time needed steady work on the side to be well of financially. Sullivan was the first boxer, perhaps even the first athlete, to appeal to a big cross section of the US, from the working class on up. He single handedly took boxing, a fringe sport for the poor, not far removed from how we view say dog or **** fighting today, and put it right up there with baseball as one of the most popular sports in the country.

        It takes a very, very unique person and athlete to accomplish something like that.

        Personally, I'm exciting about reading this book, as there's a lot about Sullivan I don't know, but I've always had a ton of respect for the guy. Without John L, boxing wouldn't be the same sport it is today.
        Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Jack Dempsey that made boxing popular?

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        • #24
          According to the Isenberg biography of Sullivan, Sullivan was the first American "nonentrepreneur from the popular culture to earn over a million dollars in his lifetime". His 1883-1884 Grand Tour alone earned him estimates between 50,000 and 195,000 dollars, a considerable sum for that period and he earned estimates between 10,000 and 26,600 dollars just for the Jake Kilrain fight alone. Even if you go by the low end of those estimates, he was very popular in that day and age.

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          • #25
            Dempsey upped the popularity of the sport a great deal and brought in a lot of money, but not to the degree that Sullivan did. I mean Sullivan took it from illegal sport to mainstream popularity. Dempsey definitely made the sport even more popular, but it wasn't the big jump that Sullivan caused. By the time Dempsey came around, boxing was much more accepted and popular.

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            • #26
              You can be a "Racist" and still choose to fight the opposition...so Sullivan didn't like "blacks", so what, that doesn't mean you don't fight them...think about it, why not fight the poor, hopeless, stupid, unmanly, black man... show your "White Power", what harm could he do to you, right


              They hated Jack Johnson because he shoved his black skin in their face, ****ed their white women, drove their cars fast down their streets, ****ed their women, smiled to the camera and the people like everything was just great, ****ed their women, earned a good amount of money, beat up their fighters, ****ed their women, dressed in the finest suits, ****ed their women, etc.

              I don't blame John: he had to be ignorant...he must have not been educated because he obviously couldn't comprehend history or even his present day...he must have been so stupid that he didn't even realize that he, in the eyes of the English, was nothing more than a potato eating, drunken, Mick, who was nothing short of a toilet.
              Last edited by Abe Attell; 09-19-2006, 08:35 AM.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Abe Attell
                You can be a "Racist" and still choose to fight the opposition...so Sullivan didn't like "blacks", so what, that doesn't mean you don't fight them...think about it, why not fight the poor, hopeless, stupid, unmanly, black man... show your "White Power", what harm could he do to you, right


                They hated Jack Johnson because he shoved his black skin in their face, ****ed their white women, drove their cars fast down their streets, ****ed their women, smiled to the camera and the people like everything was just great, ****ed their women, earned a good amount of money, beat up their fighters, ****ed their women, dressed in the finest suits, ****ed their women, etc.

                I don't blame John: he had to be ignorant...he must have not been educated because he obviously couldn't comprehend history or even his present day...he must have been so stupid that he didn't even realize that he, in the eyes of the English, was nothing more than a potato eating, drunken, Mick, who was nothing short of a toilet.
                Haha, good post. Good k for you!

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by butterfly1964
                  Haha, good post. Good k for you!
                  You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Abe Attell again.

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                  • #29
                    Do you think we should stop studying George Washington in school because he owned slaves? How about Abraham Lincoln? Lincoln believed that although slavery was wrong, that blacks should not have the same rights as whites. Is a book on him worth while?

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by apollack
                      Do you think we should stop studying George Washington in school because he owned slaves? How about Abraham Lincoln? Lincoln believed that although slavery was wrong, that blacks should not have the same rights as whites. Is a book on him worth while?
                      You'll have to prove that to me.

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