Mayweather And His Legacy

[ShoulderRoll]

A boxer can never receive credit for mountains he did not climb, even though everyone is certain he could have easily climbed them.

I am certain Robinson could have beaten almost every light heavyweight in the world in his own best era, but that does not mean he should receive any credit for my guess.

Likewise, Mayweather may have been able to beat his group of undersized geezers, even had they been in their respective primes, but he cannot get credit for it, no matter how much we suspect he could have overcome them. The geezers of Tiny Town vs Lil' Floyd is what we got. We have to assess him versus those geezers, not on their prime counterparts.

By buggery, one would think that would be outstandingly clear.

Just judge others by the exact same criteria used on Floyd.

How many all-time greats in their prime did Dempsey, Locche, and Aaron Pryor beat?

Can't give any of them credit for mountains they didn't climb, right?

[The Old LefHook]

There are some obvious takeaways from MW's aggregate career. We all know them.

(1) Swarmers gave him trouble. (Both Castillo and Maidana gave him big problems, thereby earning rematches for themselves.)

(2) He feared fast negroes at their peaks, not to mention Pacman, another fast hitter with pop. (Both Judah and Mosley had been drubbed multiple times, far from those halcyon days when they were heralded as dangerous, peaking prodigies.)

(3) He preferred that others settle the difficult issues, and then he cleaned up on their battered victims. (See Margarito/Cotto, Mosley/Forrest I & II, et al.)

Like the Cowardly Lion, Mayweather really could have been something, if he'd only had a pair of nuts.

[Anthony342]

Just judge others by the exact same criteria used on Floyd.

How many all-time greats in their prime did Dempsey, Locche, and Aaron Pryor beat?

Can't give any of them credit for mountains they didn't climb, right?

Good point. Then I will. I only had not commented because they were further in the past and I didn't know as much about them. Now that I know more, I know they didn't beat any all-time greats in their prime either. In fact, Dempsey had a long layoff before returning to defend the title, didn't he? And Pryor was even offered a fight with Leonard and turned it down, did he not? Maybe he wanted to stay unbeaten?

Now Locche I don't know as much about, except from the few videos I've seen of him and looking up his record. He seemed to mostly fight in his home country of Argentina. Looks like Takeshi Fuji was the guy that he beat by TKO out of frustration due to his defense after 10 rounds. Was there any ATG he could've fought in his era? He held the lineal 140 pound title.

[billeau2]

Good point. Then I will. I only had not commented because they were further in the past and I didn't know as much about them. Now that I know more, I know they didn't beat any all-time greats in their prime either. In fact, Dempsey had a long layoff before returning to defend the title, didn't he? And Pryor was even offered a fight with Leonard and turned it down, did he not? Maybe he wanted to stay unbeaten?

Now Locche I don't know as much about, except from the few videos I've seen of him and looking up his record. He seemed to mostly fight in his home country of Argentina. Looks like Takeshi Fuji was the guy that he beat by TKO out of frustration due to his defense after 10 rounds. Was there any ATG he could've fought in his era? He held the lineal 140 pound title.

Again, you simply cannot judge Mayweather and any heavyweight by the same criteria, it is impossible. With the exception of Ali, who fought a lot of fellow great fighters, most heavy weights did not fight great comp... Look at Louis, who was his best victory? Liston? Johnson? Sullivan? Even Marciano fought his guys who were smaller (Charles) or past their best.

I don't know why people do not see this fact. It is a statistical reality that most people weigh around between 100 pounds and 160ish. You will see more people fight in those divisions, and more of the mass of people will have special skills, meaning essentially that a fighter in those divisions will have better competition at all times, than in the heavyweight division.

[ShoulderRoll]

Again, you simply cannot judge Mayweather and any heavyweight by the same criteria, it is impossible. With the exception of Ali, who fought a lot of fellow great fighters, most heavy weights did not fight great comp... Look at Louis, who was his best victory? Liston? Johnson? Sullivan? Even Marciano fought his guys who were smaller (Charles) or past their best.

I don't know why people do not see this fact. It is a statistical reality that most people weigh around between 100 pounds and 160ish. You will see more people fight in those divisions, and more of the mass of people will have special skills, meaning essentially that a fighter in those divisions will have better competition at all times, than in the heavyweight division.

Yes, let's have double standards. We'll set the bar higher for Mayweather than for everybody else.

That way Floyd could have accomplished 3 times as much as other fighters that we like better but we can still rank him below them.

It's a foolproof plan.

[ShoulderRoll]

There are some obvious takeaways from MW's aggregate career. We all know them.

(1) Swarmers gave him trouble. (Both Castillo and Maidana gave him big problems, thereby earning rematches for themselves.)

(2) He feared fast negroes at their peaks, not to mention Pacman, another fast hitter with pop. (Both Judah and Mosley had been drubbed multiple times, far from those halcyon days when they were heralded as dangerous, peaking prodigies.)

(3) He preferred that others settle the difficult issues, and then he cleaned up on their battered victims. (See Margarito/Cotto, Mosley/Forrest I & II, et al.)

Like the Cowardly Lion, Mayweather really could have been something, if he'd only had a pair of nuts.

You say Floyd is a coward who feared fast negroes.

But he actually fought Shane Mosley coming off his destruction of Margarito. While Pacquiao ducked Mosley...straight from the mouth of Freddie Roach himself.

Yet not a peep of disdain or invective from you for the Pacman. I would ask why that is but your particular brand of ugly bias has already been exposed.

Mr. Bean Wrassler.

[billeau2]

Yes, let's have double standards. We'll set the bar higher for Mayweather than for everybody else.

That way Floyd could have accomplished 3 times as much as other fighters that we like better but we can still rank him below them.

It's a foolproof plan.

No... lets compare Mayweather to fighters in his weight class, where there is a much higher average of ATG's at any given time...You really don't see this point?

Would you rather compare Mayweather to Pep, Duran, Ray Leonard, or Lennox Lewis? Or, lets compare Ward to Mayweather...

This is not a hard point to understand... Its not a loaded critiscism of Mayweather either.

[The Old LefHook]

You say Floyd is a coward who feared fast negroes.

But he actually fought Shane Mosley coming off his destruction of Margarito. While Pacquiao ducked Mosley...straight from the mouth of Freddie Roach himself.

Yet not a peep of disdain or invective from you for the Pacman. I would ask why that is but your particular brand of ugly bias has already been exposed.

Mr. Bean Wrassler.

Pacquiao is a minature man, you dunce capper. Floyd was lucky to find such a tiny foe. If he were fighting now he would be challenging Rigondeaux with all the smack talk he could muster.

[QueensburyRules]

You say Floyd is a coward who feared fast negroes.

But he actually fought Shane Mosley coming off his destruction of Margarito. While Pacquiao ducked Mosley...straight from the mouth of Freddie Roach himself.

- -U jus luv ta step into steaming doggie mess.

You don't know Freddie from Fritos. Manny fought a better, non rusty BALCO Shane just after U boytoy ducked Manny and his MGM date to punt for a rusty BALCO Shane months later.

U really are easy $!

[The Old LefHook]

You say Floyd is a coward who feared fast negroes.

But he actually fought Shane Mosley coming off his destruction of Margarito. While Pacquiao ducked Mosley...straight from the mouth of Freddie Roach himself.

Yet not a peep of disdain or invective from you for the Pacman. I would ask why that is but your particular brand of ugly bias has already been exposed.

Mr. Bean Wrassler.

I said nowhere that Floyd was a coward. Those are your words, not mine. Most people are afraid of fast negroes, you can't hold that against them.