How Close Did Mike Tyson Come To Achieving Ali Status?

[Eff Pandas]

Mainstream icon status you mean?

I think being entertaining, interesting &/or compelling outside of the ring while being seen as otherworldly inside the ring are the base characteristics to put you in the running.

I think being a HW is a key component too. In boxing it feels like no one quite gets the hype & respect of HWs across all classes & countries in many cases as HWs do.

I also suspect some luck in their timing historically in boxing history with opponents & engagement with fans/viewers helped too to some degree or could even be the special ingredient that allowed for the liftoff to icon status.

I think Mike mighta surpassed Ali had he had more longevity, but he was a far mark off as things played out. If the Douglas L never happened. The Holyfield fight pops off in late 90 as scheduled & Tyson wins. We see Tyson steamroll through Bowe & Lennox + likely see a classic burnburner fight vs Tua & maybe even get that icon fight with Tyson vs Foreman. No jail sentence obviously either. It's easy to see if Tyson could have sustained his dominance & 90 seconds of can't miss TV into the 90s how he coulda gotten so much huger than he got & very likely became bigger than Ali or at least more on par with him icon-wise.

[Eff Pandas]

.Ali was only as popular because of his political stand, not his prize fighting.

Obviously the political sh^t played a part but let's not act like if he'd have lost everytime to Frazier & the Foreman fight had went as expected by most Ali would be as iconic as he was.

His persona & outgoing/jokey style was the #1 thing that got him where he went in the mainstream world. Guy was just a entertaining mfer. Dude woulda been the fun ass garbage man you'd love to bs with for a minute if you were outside when he came by if he never got far in life. The fact he was in a job that allowed more to know how engaging & charming he was helped make him all the bigger I feel like.

[Tatabanya]

The big difference is that Ali made a great personal sacrifice for principle (whether we agree with that principle or not) while Tyson never got pass just being mean.

Behind official history and media chronicling there are often untold stories that would subvert many beliefs if revealed. It's always been that way.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Tyson was never as popular as Dempsey and Louis! And what popularity he did achieve faded fast.

Ali was only as popular because of his political stand, not his prize fighting.

Mike Tyson & Muhammad Ali are two of the biggest boxing Icon's in history 'Nobody else comes close, their legacies have transcend time itself' Jack Demspey & Joe Louis's legacies have not quite transcended time 'But I admit Joe Louis Vs Max Schmeling 2' possibly the most historically significant fight in the sport.

People these days think having afew million followers on twitter/Instagram proves that you are a superstar 'Today's social culture creates a illusion'.

Mike Tyson & Muhammad Ali where the last of their kind 'Because world has changed' Muhammad Ali was the heavyweight champion of the world when? The heavyweight title next to a Olympic Gold medal was the single greatest title any man could hold aloft 'Muhammad Ali was champion, when giants truly walked the face of this earth'.

Dorian Yates won the Mr Olympia body building contest 6 times 'He stated once he achieved this feat, he realized that he had conquered physical reality' Conquered this plane of existence. Fighters like Mike Tyson & Muhammad Ali conquered this plane of existence, their legacies dented the atomic structure of the planet.

[Tatabanya]

I think Mike mighta surpassed Ali had he had more longevity, but he was a far mark off as things played out. If the Douglas L never happened. The Holyfield fight pops off in late 90 as scheduled & Tyson wins. We see Tyson steamroll through Bowe & Lennox + likely see a classic burnburner fight vs Tua & maybe even get that icon fight with Tyson vs Foreman. No jail sentence obviously either. It's easy to see if Tyson could have sustained his dominance & 90 seconds of can't miss TV into the 90s how he coulda gotten so much huger than he got & very likely became bigger than Ali or at least more on par with him icon-wise.

That's exactly how it would have played out according to my view as well. Even including the occasional loss against any of the opponents you mentioned. I suppose you meant to write that the Holyfield fight happens in the late 80s (or early 90s), right?

[Eff Pandas]

That's exactly how it would have played out according to my view as well. Even including the occasional loss against any of the opponents you mentioned. I suppose you meant to write that the Holyfield fight happens in the late 80s (or early 90s), right?

Oh yea of course I was just being super optimistic on him beating all the guys mentioned. He definitely coulda lost to a couple of them & still gotten much closer to Ali's level. Hell I imagine a L to one or two of them, not unlike Ali's L's to Frazier & Norton, likely builds those guys up to make them bigger & a rematch & trilogy fight more impactful for both guys.

If not for the Douglas loss Tyson vs Holyfield was scheduled to take place June 1990. I thought it was late 90 but apparently it was mid/summer 90.

[GhostofDempsey]

Tyson was on par with Ali with regard to popularity and star appeal. He also rejuvenated the HW division after a dry spell of lackluster fights led by Holmes.

I feel Tyson would have needed a win against Holyfield to put his resume on par. I always felt that Ali received several gifts during his career and unlike Tyson, Ali had the media in his favor to help his image, particularly during post-comeback.

[Tatabanya]

If not for the Douglas loss Tyson vs Holyfield was scheduled to take place June 1990. I thought it was late 90 but apparently it was mid/summer 90.

My fault, man. I just read inaccurately, thinking about the "90" as a decade. Sorry.

[Tatabanya]

Tyson was on par with Ali with regard to popularity and star appeal. He also rejuvenated the HW division after a dry spell of lackluster fights led by Holmes.

I feel Tyson would have needed a win against Holyfield to put his resume on par. I always felt that Ali received several gifts during his career and unlike Tyson, Ali had the media in his favor to help his image, particularly during post-comeback.

Exactly. Imagine Tyson vs Howard Cosell. Tyson would have been banned by any TV appearance after that.

[Willie Pep 229]

I just don't see it.

It is true, when Mike Tyson appeared we all believed we were witnessing a transcendental event, that prize fighting would never be the same, but just as the nation was settling into that belief it got counted-out in Tokyo.

After that it all quickly became exploitation.

All media sensations don't necessarily transcend their callings. In the end Tyson was a flash in the pan, today mostly remembered for threatening to eat people's children and ****; he became a parody of himself.

P.S. If Mike Tyson chooses to continue his career with another exploitation of his name, I am all in. I will gladly throw in my nickle to fill his coffers. I see no reason why any fighter shouldn't grab whatever he can, and there is no reason Tyson's golden years be one of poverty. That has happened too many damn times in this game. If Tyson wrestles a bear I'm in, but to call him a transcendental figure of prize fighting, never!