31 yr old Fury vs 31 yr old Ali

[billeau2]

I stated the facts and you ignored them, preferring tangential strawman arguments.

I can literally provide more than half a dozen hostorical examples to disprove your assertions, and you'll still retort that I'm only providing "opinion".

You don't think that's a little detached from reality?

Rusty you do not set out with the possibility that you are mistaken, or that someone might have a valid point. you simply want to be right at all costs. Then you accuse others, and lets face it, most people here would agree, which makes them all idiots like me right? , of making false arguments.

You just are not willing to listen to anything that is not part of your narrative even when your narrative makes crazy claims. I am a fairly tolerant guy, at least I like to think so, and it seems that is generally how I am perceived, but you resort to ad hominum attacks when someone disagrees with you.

You do have great insights at times, and I welcome those times. At the end of the day there will be a difference of opinions at times. There are people on this site a lot smarter than I who disagree with each other.

There are historians who have studied boxing for years that battle about issues... So here is one more thing to consider: There are a lot of issues I will give ground on, even to the degree that I do not agree with them, but can understand the logic to what is said.

But when you start ridiculing Ali, forget it. Ali put up with a tremendous amount of bigotry and hate. He gave away something that every idiot knows, if he had enlisted they would have protected him and he would have been fighting in a jiffy. Ali was a special human being, he walked the walk...Yes he was protected later in his career, and no it was not right...fun fact, as a kid I hated Ali lol. Ali could do things in the ring that were phenominal, only Ray Robinson and Roy Jones could do the same naturally in the ring that I have seen.

Does it mean he was the best fighter? Not necessarily. But diminishing him when he fought in an era with the toughest competition, and did so after years were taken away is not right. JOhn Fury agrees with me and thinks Ali was the greatest, so argue with him...He is one of the smartest boxing minds around... He is responsible for a lot of fury's talents.

Ali was special Rusty. We can agree to disagree, and I can certainly be realistic and accept things like Ghost of Dempsey states about Ali... But IMO and the opinion of many great boxing men, including the modern John Fury, Ali was so good that he transcended the sport. You cannot say "well Frazier lost his best years" and compare... Ali did a lot more than beat Joe Frazier and we may actually never know how great he would have been.

[REDEEMER]

It has nothing to do with fault. Certainly people who professionally assess fights and fighters have more experience than you, or me, etc... Your making this personal especially with that comment about the ignore button. where did that come from?

Im sorry you don't enjoy these posts. But really, your not teaching anyone a lesson because you were right about Fury. Good catch! but there is a lot more to prognasticating and analyzing than being right on a detail. Seriously don't take it personally lol.

For those wondering: "Redeemer was correct in pointing out that Fury's weight gain was legit"... I was concerned when I saw him at the weigh in carrying extra weight with shirt on...

You would have more of a claim that I should eat some crow if I changed my pick on the fight. I didn't. And my point stands that there are people who are very smart in the industry who find out and give information to odds makers.

I read the comment wrong referring to the other poster .

It still doesn’t matter who knows what ,the smarter bettor will bet correctly no matter how you twist that ,it’s not even debatable because the most important thing is the fight study not secret espionage to get a better secret about the boxing insides to determine an outcome Ha

Edit : In the end you said you thinking about changing the pick because of the added weight of Fury it wouldn’t be about the pick it would be the reason and that was the discussion not who you were going to pick.

[QueensburyRules]

- -OK, interesting that most responses are just ethereal genuflecting navel gazing.

Seems clear that Tyson was in an upswing and Ali in a downer of sorts with poor training habits.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Rusty you do not set out with the possibility that you are mistaken, or that someone might have a valid point. you simply want to be right at all costs. Then you accuse others, and lets face it, most people here would agree, which makes them all idiots like me right? , of making false arguments.

You just are not willing to listen to anything that is not part of your narrative even when your narrative makes crazy claims. I am a fairly tolerant guy, at least I like to think so, and it seems that is generally how I am perceived, but you resort to ad hominum attacks when someone disagrees with you.

You do have great insights at times, and I welcome those times. At the end of the day there will be a difference of opinions at times. There are people on this site a lot smarter than I who disagree with each other.

There are historians who have studied boxing for years that battle about issues... So here is one more thing to consider: There are a lot of issues I will give ground on, even to the degree that I do not agree with them, but can understand the logic to what is said.

But when you start ridiculing Ali, forget it. Ali put up with a tremendous amount of bigotry and hate. He gave away something that every idiot knows, if he had enlisted they would have protected him and he would have been fighting in a jiffy. Ali was a special human being, he walked the walk...Yes he was protected later in his career, and no it was not right...fun fact, as a kid I hated Ali lol. Ali could do things in the ring that were phenominal, only Ray Robinson and Roy Jones could do the same naturally in the ring that I have seen.

Does it mean he was the best fighter? Not necessarily. But diminishing him when he fought in an era with the toughest competition, and did so after years were taken away is not right. JOhn Fury agrees with me and thinks Ali was the greatest, so argue with him...He is one of the smartest boxing minds around... He is responsible for a lot of fury's talents.

Ali was special Rusty. We can agree to disagree, and I can certainly be realistic and accept things like Ghost of Dempsey states about Ali... But IMO and the opinion of many great boxing men, including the modern John Fury, Ali was so good that he transcended the sport. You cannot say "well Frazier lost his best years" and compare... Ali did a lot more than beat Joe Frazier and we may actually never know how great he would have been.

Sounds like we agree more than we disagree. It's how we apply it that makes the difference.

For example: We both say Ali was extraordinary, but acknowledge his limitations. You say we don't know how great he would've been, while I say his greatness would've smoldered out against Joe Frazier.

[DreamFighter]

Ali makes him look oafish for the entire fight.

[Onetwoboxing]

Ali demolishes Fury.

[QueensburyRules]

Ali makes him look oafish for the entire fight.

- -Ironboy Calderon ties Ali into granny knots.

Blowing beets is easy , hence the devolution of the history thread.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ali makes him look oafish for the entire fight.

Like Loughran would make Ali appear oafish?

[billeau2]

I read the comment wrong referring to the other poster .

It still doesn’t matter who knows what ,the smarter bettor will bet correctly no matter how you twist that ,it’s not even debatable because the most important thing is the fight study not secret espionage to get a better secret about the boxing insides to determine an outcome Ha

Edit : In the end you said you thinking about changing the pick because of the added weight of Fury it wouldn’t be about the pick it would be the reason and that was the discussion not who you were going to pick.

Not true. the important thing would be what kind of a camp a fighter had. The other stuff one can reason out, but information is at a premium. Look at the second Ruiz fight. That is a perfect example.

I said I was concerned about the weight, yes. I was! I even explained why...

[DreamFighter]

Like Loughran would make Ali appear oafish?

no, just what it says.

Theres no weather report or 2020 election prediction in that sentence either.