Is Joe Louis Still Overratred.

[Rusty Tromboni]

And it worked great on cooperative opponents. Conn did not cooperate, and made a ninny of Joe, by buggery. Joe only caught the tiny man because he forgot to be uncooperative when he saw what a lumbering plodder Joe the giant was.

Mr. Huphries, could you please stop lying?

Conn didn;t suddenly completely alter his gameplan and go for the kill because he smelt blood in the water.

Also, Conn was no Willie Pep. He never tried to be. So we shouldn't act like he was going to win the fight that way, either.

That was his first Heavyweight Championship fight. He was fighting a more experienced man who hit harder and took a punch better than anyone he'd ever met.

I don't doubt that without the war, Conn dethrones Louis. It pretty much looked to be on lock.

But Conn was feeling the fight and that point, and Louis had finally timed him.

The idea that Conn went Quarry on Louis is over-stated. He was no Terry McGovern. But he was slowing down and finding it harder to escape.

And even if Conn got on his bike. That might have blown it for him. Judges didn't like pure-boxers the same as the do today. Sure, Pep was just around the corner and Pastrano-Johnson wasn't too many years away. But just consider the fate of another affable Irishman who tried too hard to be cute against cruder, lesser opponents. Billy Graham bested Gavilan and Basilio. The film proves it. But that kinda fighting didn't sell then like it does today.

[billeau2]

I am looking for the tape I saw

here is the problem with showing a tape of Louis showing early times...All the stuff on tape is emphasizing his KO's. I am looking for a specific film that showed early stuff and showed his footwork. I will search again tonight, it is sticking in my craw.

[billeau2]

This is for Lefty

Ok here are some young JOe Louis fights.

Lee Ramage rematch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47UVZSvDVgI

Louis cuts the ring down, moves fast to parry punches. His footwork includes rapid back and fourth when attacking.

Now, lets look at this louis Farr fight: Louis is not as frenetic but an argument could be made that he has become more efficient. I see a fighter wasting less energy frankly. Louis does take a shot now and then...

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ok here are some young JOe Louis fights.

Lee Ramage rematch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47UVZSvDVgI

Louis cuts the ring down, moves fast to parry punches. His footwork includes rapid back and fourth when attacking.

Now, lets look at this louis Farr fight: Louis is not as frenetic but an argument could be made that he has become more efficient. I see a fighter wasting less energy frankly. Louis does take a shot now and then...

people who say he was slow and dismiss his movement haven't boxed.

Liston was quicker, but couldn't cut-off the ring to save his life. Only moved in straight lines.

I don't see Liston beating Conn. I am more confident in Tunney and Dempsey's chances against Liston than I am against Louis.

Ali might've been too big, strong and fast, but Louis was better at most things than Frazier, Norton and Foreman. All had success against Ali.

[billeau2]

people who say he was slow and dismiss his movement haven't boxed.

Liston was quicker, but couldn't cut-off the ring to save his life. Only moved in straight lines.

I don't see Liston beating Conn. I am more confident in Tunney and Dempsey's chances against Liston than I am against Louis.

Ali might've been too big, strong and fast, but Louis was better at most things than Frazier, Norton and Foreman. All had success against Ali.

Yeah Louis had efficiency in cutting the ring down that was incredible. I always learn something new watching tapes of any of the guys lol. Its in the tape but Lefty was right in that I did find a tape that did not deal so much with his spectacular KO's and one should be able to see him move more... i was looking for something obvious that I had come across a while back lol, the search continues.

All of the fighters you mention were worth taking a good look at. Liston did not cut the ring as well i agree...But Liston has a method of taking a half step on the punch... This ironickly would be a great method for someone like Ruiz...

When you have no reach to speak of, in mathmatical terms you have twice the distance to make up. i am rounding off crazy here, but the actual inches are not important. The point is, everytime a guy like Joshua throws you need to be a half step in to get the same distance, vis a vis, the point where the punch connects.

Liston always took a half step as he was punching, so when the guy moved back, Liston was in position to throw the next bomb. Ruiz needed to make that step to know he was in range and start attacking. If you make that step a habit, then it becomes second nature to find the opponent at the end of the punch.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Yeah Louis had efficiency in cutting the ring down that was incredible. I always learn something new watching tapes of any of the guys lol. Its in the tape but Lefty was right in that I did find a tape that did not deal so much with his spectacular KO's and one should be able to see him move more... i was looking for something obvious that I had come across a while back lol, the search continues.

All of the fighters you mention were worth taking a good look at. Liston did not cut the ring as well i agree...But Liston has a method of taking a half step on the punch... This ironickly would be a great method for someone like Ruiz...

When you have no reach to speak of, in mathmatical terms you have twice the distance to make up. i am rounding off crazy here, but the actual inches are not important. The point is, everytime a guy like Joshua throws you need to be a half step in to get the same distance, vis a vis, the point where the punch connects.

Liston always took a half step as he was punching, so when the guy moved back, Liston was in position to throw the next bomb. Ruiz needed to make that step to know he was in range and start attacking. If you make that step a habit, then it becomes second nature to find the opponent at the end of the punch.

Nice poitn on Ruiz. He looked completely lost. He has great hand-speed, but his footwork doesn't look special. Probably he's used to bigger (taller, naturally heavier boned) guys trying to bully him.

Liston was text-book in terms of keeping his balance, and placing his feet underneath him.

[billeau2]

Nice poitn on Ruiz. He looked completely lost. He has great hand-speed, but his footwork doesn't look special. Probably he's used to bigger (taller, naturally heavier boned) guys trying to bully him.

Liston was text-book in terms of keeping his balance, and placing his feet underneath him.

Mentored Foreman in the same footwork but George was not as clean, had some different things he did.

[uncle ben]

The #1 heavyweight of all time could still be overrated, and has been. The Will of Cassius Clay still overcomes all heavyweights before and after himself, but in some cases the fights would be much harder than we once supposed. He was willing to literally ruin himself to overcome opponents. And the #2 AT heavyweight could be underrated but still have the right ranking at #2. Got that?

Prime Ali could never beat the great Monte Barret.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ok here are some young JOe Louis fights.

Lee Ramage rematch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47UVZSvDVgI

Louis cuts the ring down, moves fast to parry punches. His footwork includes rapid back and fourth when attacking.

Now, lets look at this louis Farr fight: Louis is not as frenetic but an argument could be made that he has become more efficient. I see a fighter wasting less energy frankly. Louis does take a shot now and then...

good find.

Yeah, being fleet-footed provided him little advantage. The ring was pretty small. I think a lot of guys - Ali, Jones, Holmes, would really struggle to use their speed and mobility in the ring w/ Louis.

Can you imagine the Ali of the Liston fight surviving very long against Louis?

Louis didn't need to be fast. He always got his opponent where he wanted him.

I do think guys like Tunney and Dempsey have his number, though. But I'd pick the younger Louis, even if he's less perfect on paper.

[billeau2]

good find.

Yeah, being fleet-footed provided him little advantage. The ring was pretty small. I think a lot of guys - Ali, Jones, Holmes, would really struggle to use their speed and mobility in the ring w/ Louis.

Can you imagine the Ali of the Liston fight surviving very long against Louis?

Louis didn't need to be fast. He always got his opponent where he wanted him.

I do think guys like Tunney and Dempsey have his number, though. But I'd pick the younger Louis, even if he's less perfect on paper.

Good post! I agree about tunney and dempsey. I am frustrated because all the Louis material around shows his efficiency and his punching. I had found some film of him young and it showed when he was very young. It showed more of him going across the ring in fleet footed fashion. But I can't find that film these days.