Fullmer vs Hagler

[johnbook]

Hahahahahaha.



No.



Hagler doesn't put on a clinic, but he definitely shows off his Boxing skills. I agree that it's exciting, Hagler is finally meeting a guy more rugged and just as dirty as himself. But he's too polished to lose this one.

Petronelli doesn't get enough credit as a trainer. Left to his own devices, it's probable that we would have never heard of Marvin Hagler. (Who knows if he would have ever gotten as far as the Philly Circuit.) But Petronelli showed how to make an ATG champion. Fullmer under the same guidance might been something even better.

If you're going to quote someone, use their whole quote, not 1 line for your "hahahaha etc.".

Hagler fought self-named beasts like Mugabe and prevailed. Hamsho was a beast too.

And Hagler, hate to say it, when he felt the need, would go to the family ***els to prevail.

Hagler much more skilled boxer and better distance game.

Hagler by KO/TKO late.

[The Old LefHook]

A couple of remarks about Marv. Yes, his best opponents were usually a tad smaller than him, but just a tad. And what a group they were. Marv's career was lucky to have them. They had positive impact not negative. I believe it is a fact that they would beat almost ll middleweight champions, very possibly squeezing into the top 10-12 slots, even little Duran. I believe Duran would beat a man like Graziano, despite the physical disadvantages.

[Rusty Tromboni]

If you're going to quote someone, use their whole quote, not 1 line for your "hahahaha etc.".

Hagler fought self-named beasts like Mugabe and prevailed. Hamsho was a beast too.

And Hagler, hate to say it, when he felt the need, would go to the family ***els to prevail.

Hagler much more skilled boxer and better distance game.

Hagler by KO/TKO late.

Yeah. You're only making it worse for yourself.

In fact, now that you made me go and review his record closer. I am that much more confident that Hagler LOSES. Fullmer brought out the best that Robinson and Giardello had (at the time) and they still couldn't out-box him. Tiger needed 3x and his own tropical soil to finally beat an old Fullmer.

These are all guys who would make the hacks Hagler fought look like... well, hacks. Hagler was entertaining. He had really gutsy fights with guys who really shouldn't have been that difficult for a champion to dispose of. Ironically, his struggle made the fights more epic. It's like watching Ruddy. We've all seen that movie a dozen times, but who the best player on ND's current roster? Who was their last big name to make it in the NFL? You remember, way more lines from "Rudy" than you'd care to admit, though.

If not an emotional bio-pic, then Hagler's championship reign was like a summer blockbuster. Lots of explosions, legendary one-liners and big plot moves. But no substance or meaningful acting compared to the more weighty classics. Seriously, John Mugabi... Mustafa Hamsho... if you'd see these guys today it would be to pad Amir Khan's record, so that you might mistake him as still relevant.

[Rusty Tromboni]

A couple of remarks about Marv. Yes, his best opponents were usually a tad smaller than him, but just a tad. And what a group they were. Marv's career was lucky to have them. They had positive impact not negative. I believe it is a fact that they would beat almost ll middleweight champions, very possibly squeezing into the top 10-12 slots, even little Duran. I believe Duran would beat a man like Graziano, despite the physical disadvantages.

Who wouldn't beat Graziano?

I mean, who wouldn't beat Graziano, that wasn't paid beaucoup bucks to lose?

[johnbook]

Yeah. You're only making it worse for yourself.

In fact, now that you made me go and review his record closer. I am that much more confident that Hagler LOSES. Fullmer brought out the best that Robinson and Giardello had (at the time) and they still couldn't out-box him. Tiger needed 3x and his own tropical soil to finally beat an old Fullmer.

These are all guys who would make the hacks Hagler fought look like... well, hacks. Hagler was entertaining. He had really gutsy fights with guys who really shouldn't have been that difficult for a champion to dispose of. Ironically, his struggle made the fights more epic. It's like watching Ruddy. We've all seen that movie a dozen times, but who the best player on ND's current roster? Who was their last big name to make it in the NFL? You remember, way more lines from "Rudy" than you'd care to admit, though.

If not an emotional bio-pic, then Hagler's championship reign was like a summer blockbuster. Lots of explosions, legendary one-liners and big plot moves. But no substance or meaningful acting compared to the more weighty classics. Seriously, John Mugabi... Mustafa Hamsho... if you'd see these guys today it would be to pad Amir Khan's record, so that you might mistake him as still relevant.

Joke reply.
Leaving out Hagler's triumphs like Hearns, Mintner and many others.
I believe Mugabi was undefeated and great KO artist till Hagler.
The Hearns fight alone cements his legacy.

[cfang]

Hagler would beat fullmer every time. most likely a late stoppage.

Nobody is beating Marvin unless they have off the scale boxing skills. in fact it may well be that nobody is beating marvin at middle full stop. He could be the best ever in that division. Greb for me is number one but marvin could have beaten anyone.

Gene fullmer was a good fighter and a good middle but hagler is a level up imo.

Joke reply.
Leaving out Hagler's triumphs like Hearns, Mintner and many others.
I believe Mugabi was undefeated and great KO artist till Hagler.
The Hearns fight alone cements his legacy.

[johnbook]

Hagler would beat fullmer every time. most likely a late stoppage.

Nobody is beating Marvin unless they have off the scale boxing skills. in fact it may well be that nobody is beating marvin at middle full stop. He could be the best ever in that division. Greb for me is number one but marvin could have beaten anyone.

Gene fullmer was a good fighter and a good middle but hagler is a level up imo.

Thank you, we pretty much agree.
Kinda sick that that troll leaves out Hagler vs Hearns whose first rd many have said was the greatest in boxing history.

That right that Hearns landed prob would have KOed most HWs. Yet Hagler came back to win 2 rds later. He had a chin maybe better than LaMotta's and was pretty damned skilled as a boxer when he needed or wanted to.

Prob. the only way to legitimately beat prime Hagler would be like Ali dance and stick and win on points.
I don't know much on Greb as I believe there are no films?

[The Old LefHook]

Who wouldn't beat Graziano?

I mean, who wouldn't beat Graziano, that wasn't paid beaucoup bucks to lose?

Who wouldn't beat Graziano? Oh, how's about, all other former lightweight champions, to name a few dozen guys?

[QueensburyRules]

- -Greb could brawl with any sub 200 lb fighter and had a bad habit of beating up LH/Hvy contender types.

Neither describes Fullmer, Hagler, or even Monzon who is my #1 pic at middle. I'd have Hag top5 or 3. Not sure where Gene belongs, but for sure he'd win 1 of 3 agin him.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Joke reply.
Leaving out Hagler's triumphs like Hearns, Mintner and many others.

That's a nice retreat.

Tell me My Little Runaway, why should I talk about them!?

No offense, bud, I know I come across as a d i c k. But I'm not that bad. I'm trying to have a real discussion here, but when you present guys like Hearns and Mintner it posts a giant red flag.

Those were fine performances. Almost Hagler's best, but for this conversation (Gene FUllmer - have you even seen him fight?) there are much more appropriate analogs:
Antuofermo, Briscoe, Rolfan, Finnegan, Hart, Sibson and Hamsho.

I don't mind breaking down the Mintner fight. Again, after the Antufermo rematch, I think it was Marvin at his absolute best. I'm not here to s h i t on Marvin. He was incredible and his career was incredible. But he gets ridiculously over-rated, especially in these kind of discussions. I am just here to realigns things with reality.

None of those men were as good as Robinson, even the version Fullmer fought. Albeit inconsistent, when he was on, Robinson was still more capable offensively and defensively than anyone Hagler fought, and more resilient.

Basilio, Tiger (a goddamn Light Heavyweight) and Basilio would take Hagler to the limit. I'm not sure Hagler beats the latter two. Really, he was a MUCH better champion, but not necessarily a better fighter.

I believe Mugabi was undefeated and great KO artist till Hagler.

The fact that you keep referencing John Mugabi shows how little you know about Boxing.

Frank Bruno was an undefeated great KO artist. Joshua, Prince Naseem, they were too. How about Mac Foster? Gerry Cooney? Bob Satterfield? Diego Corrales?

I'll throw you a bone and say that Marvin, after his collision course with Hearns, had finally lost a step. Rebounding from his loss to Monroe until his fight with Hearns, Marvin was on top. But after Hearns he began to plummet.

But you can't have it both ways. Either Mugabi was an ATG, or Hagler was in decline.

Mugabi's record and the available footage STRONGLY suggest the latter. (If you're looking for the right answer, that is the one you want). I'd love to see you argue otherwise.

The Hearns fight alone cements his legacy.

That he was a rugged brawler who did best against lighter, come-forward fighters with questionable chins?

Or that when he couldn't out-box Toughman Competitors who had no business fighting for a championship in the first place, he had no alternative to entering into career-ending brawls?

That just because he went life and death with an old Lightweight, and could still KO a Welterweight?

That he was easier to put on the backfoot than Fullmer?

That he would have lost 11 times out of 10 to Robinson?

That he threw wild looping punches when under stress?

That you needed glaring holes in your defense for Hagler to find you?

That after alllll those years under the guidance of Petronelli and fighting as an elite Middleweight, his most memorable performance is an outright brawl with a forgettable Middleweight?

That Hearns went on to bigger and better things, while Marvin went to Italy to become a discount Mr. T in their film "industry"?