George Foreman vs Ron Lyle

[Southpaw Stinger]

Foreman looked really weird in that Lyle fight. He didn't have the same reckless aggressiveness that he had prior to the Rumble in the Junge. You can tell how the Ali fight really affected him.

George was a changed man.

[LondonRingRules]

What do you mean man? It was a clear TKO win for Ali in round 11.

** If it was a clear win then how come the announcers questioned the stoppage and Lyle protested. He was never out, he was just ropadoping Ali. That ref would have stopped Ali in the 3rd round of the Foreman fight if he was consistant.

[LondonRingRules]

** Foreman had a new manager/trainer, Gil Clancy, who was trying to get him to box and pace himself more. His old trainer, Saddler, used to dehydrate him 48 hrs before a bout and whip him into a frenzy before the bell rang.

[SABBATH]

** If it was a clear win then how come the announcers questioned the stoppage and Lyle protested. He was never out, he was just ropadoping Ali. That ref would have stopped Ali in the 3rd round of the Foreman fight if he was consistant.

The fight was shown live on ABC with Howard Cosell doing the commentary alone. He did not question the stoppage.

[Hard Boiled HK]

Ali who got a gift over Lyle.

Define "gift".

[LondonRingRules]

I saw the replay on ESPN with different commentators. Regardless, Lyle was not hurt a single bit. Had that been Ali on the ropes the fight would not have been stopped. Superstars always get the gift calls, just look at Michael Jordan!

[jason100x]

wow, I just finished watching that one a little while ago. Great fight!

[LondonRingRules]

Define "gift".

** Gift is when you're supposed to be a superstar boxer and a crude slugger out of prison is outboxing you and you win the fight.

I would add in Jack Johnson did not dominate his era. In their primes Sam Langford was the most dangerous heavy of the era and Sam Mcvea, Joe Jeannette, and Harry Wills were fighting the big battles, taking the big chances.

[butterfly1964]

I like it when ali haters show their true colors. ali had lyle falling over the ropes twice. he was glassy-eyed and his head was snapped continuously. That was a clear stoppage win for ali. If the ref didn't stop it, then lyle would have went down in that round for sure.

[SABBATH]

** I would add in Jack Johnson did not dominate his era. In their primes Sam Langford was the most dangerous heavy of the era and Sam Mcvea, Joe Jeannette, and Harry Wills were fighting the big battles, taking the big chances.

Langford was soundly defeated by Johnson prior to winning the title getting dropped twice in the process and suffering "the worst beating of my career" to quote Sam. Johnson also decisively beat McVey and Jeanette prior to winning the title.

Harry Wills was employed as a sparring partner for Johnson when Jack was champion and wouldn't reach top contender status until Dempsey was champion.

Of course Dempsey didn't defend against Willis because he didn't grant title fights to black fighters just like Jim Jeffries before him and Joe Louis afterwards.