I'm sorry but i can't see Liston as a great or even good boxer ?

[Dempsey19]

Whenever I hear Liston mentioned people seem full of praise for him, rating him in their top 10 lists and calling him an atg but I am sorry, I will definitely receive hate for this but I cannot try as hard as I might look at Ali-Liston II and see Liston as anything more than a B-rate fighter.

I do not think any heavyweight in the top 10 today would have lost as badly to Ali in that fight. As a matter of fact I do not think a top 10 heavyweight from any other era would have done that badly. No A-rate fighter should be beaten that easily, even by the GOAT.

Tony Galento did 100x better against a Prime Louis than Liston did against Ali, is Ali 100x as good as a Prime Louis ? I think not. 50+ Archie Moore did much better against Ali then Liston did !

I'm sorry to all Liston fans but I cannot see him as anything more than a B-rate boxer who was fortunate to be born in a weak era. I do not think he'd make the Top 10 today or even 10 years before or after his time. He wasn't a bum but he just wasn't great or even world-class.

[giant_king]

Alot of folks don't know the real story about Liston.He was king of boxing in his short reign.but he was connected with Al copone and the mob.He owed the mob alot of money.and back then the mob pretty much ran the boxing organization.So Liston had to take dives lose fights.So with Sonny being suppressed by the mob people never got to see his real talent the talent that made him a champ before he was involved with the mob

[dan_cov]

The most overrated HW in history.

Biggest hypejob alongside Adrian Broner

[clemenza]

You guys are delusional
The guy had great wins in his career.
Destroying Floyd Patterson,
Zora Foley & Eddie Machen are excellent wins.
I ran into chuck wepner years ago at the Wladamir Klitchko vs Ray Mercer fight at Trumps Taj Mahal and wepner was holding court and he said nobody hit like Sonny Liston.
Not Ali , Foreman , Frazier.
He felt bones breaking in his face that night.
Sonny was done as a fighter than.
So everyone hold your breath saying he could not beat a top 10 Heavyweight today.
Dominick Breazle or Big Baby Miller vs Liston.
Please folks, them guys wouldn’t make 5-6 rounds vs the bear.
Dillion who.
Those are the top contenders.

[GhostofDempsey]

Liston was highly underrated and his fights with Ali were fixes. Ali fans will deny it and ask for proof, but it’s been written about in several thoroughly researched books. Watch his fights and how he went through a prime Cleveland Williams with ease (not the bullet riddled washed up version Ali fought) as well as other solid HW’s like Patterson 2x, Folley, Machen. He had an excellent jab, new how to cut off the ring, and Forrman himself called him the hardest puncher he ever stepped in the ring with.

[dan_cov]

Machen and Folley are hardly 'excellent' wins who did Eddie Machen ever beat? He lost everytime he stepped up.
Folley wasn't close to elite either beating a pre-prime Foster and a few gatekeeper\contenders.

The only world class fighter Liston beat was an undersized, chinny Floyd Patterson.

His resume isn't much if any better than Wilders and I'm serious. Listons resume is ****!
He's not an ATG or top 10 HW.

[billeau2]

Whenever I hear Liston mentioned people seem full of praise for him, rating him in their top 10 lists and calling him an atg but I am sorry, I will definitely receive hate for this but I cannot try as hard as I might look at Ali-Liston II and see Liston as anything more than a B-rate fighter.

I do not think any heavyweight in the top 10 today would have lost as badly to Ali in that fight. As a matter of fact I do not think a top 10 heavyweight from any other era would have done that badly. No A-rate fighter should be beaten that easily, even by the GOAT.

Tony Galento did 100x better against a Prime Louis than Liston did against Ali, is Ali 100x as good as a Prime Louis ? I think not. 50+ Archie Moore did much better against Ali then Liston did !

I'm sorry to all Liston fans but I cannot see him as anything more than a B-rate boxer who was fortunate to be born in a weak era. I do not think he'd make the Top 10 today or even 10 years before or after his time. He wasn't a bum but he just wasn't great or even world-class.

Im sorry you feel ill advised to share your opinion of Liston. No shame in having disagreements about a fighter. If you want to look at Liston with objectivity its all in the tape of his fights. Probably the best finisher in the heavyweights, methodical in stepping and punching, able to cut the ring off, strong as an oxe, and one of the harder punches ever in the division. Louis was better and Dempsey perhaps hit harder... and thats about it.

So my only rejoinder other than the above would be to say that competition is not the only factor in determining ability. Liston's competition has to also be viewed accurately. Most men he fought had skills, long training periods, and would show up tip top shape. Fighters had more to them, more skin in the game.

[QueensburyRules]

Alot of folks don't know the real story about Liston.He was king of boxing in his short reign.but he was connected with Al copone and the mob.b

- -Thanks for the laugh!

Al was long gone before Sonny ever boxed, but in natural physical attributes, Sonny near the top of the heap, but yeah, not on my top 10 greatest.

Many in the HOF had mob associations, a fact of life that hampered many great talents back then.

[Ben Bolt]

The Floyd-Ingo triology took at least three years away from Liston’s champion reign.
He was most likely the #1 already in ’58.

I might look at Ali-Liston II and see Liston as anything more than a B-rate fighter. I do not think any heavyweight in the top 10 today would have lost as badly to Ali in that fight.

The Ali-Liston II fight, you should read more about it and understand why Liston was a shell of his former self in that particular night. Reducing him to a B-fighter makes no sense. (However, a top shape Liston couldn’t have beaten Clay. With Clay, heavyweight boxing entered a new era).

[Rusty Tromboni]

Liston was highly underrated and his fights with Ali were fixes. Ali fans will deny it and ask for proof, but it’s been written about in several thoroughly researched books. Watch his fights and how he went through a prime Cleveland Williams with ease (not the bullet riddled washed up version Ali fought) as well as other solid HW’s like Patterson 2x, Folley, Machen. He had an excellent jab, new how to cut off the ring, and Forrman himself called him the hardest puncher he ever stepped in the ring with.

I dunno about this first. Looks legit. Looks like Liston doesn't know where his legs went.


The dude's skills were scary. But I do think some revisionists exagerate his ability. I dunno if Cassius Clay/Ali beats a prime Liston, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of great heavyweights did. He looked great against guys he was supposed to beat... just like Julian Jackson did.