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  • --- Do you deny Dundee used illegal smelling salts on Ali after Cooper knocked him down?

    That makes them both proven drug cheats in today's hyperventilating climate.

    Do you deny Sonny was a mob fighter and that no mob fighter would dare quit a fight without a mob directive?

    Do you deny Sonny died under dubious circumstance never properly investigated just weeks before scheduled to appear before Congress?

    Do you accept at face value the historically notorious ham handed bleeding into crooked Congress inept investigation of the fights sez much about your button down lack of awareness not only in boxing, but the greater world?

    Yeah, SI put GEORGE their front cover because noone wanted to see George rematch...NOONE!!!

    Snickers all around...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
      Espn measured the foreman Ali count at 8-9 sec...FACT!
      Guess ESPN needs a new watch then.

      Here's George on the canvas at 2:40:
      https://********/10ZIxV9KWgY?t=160

      Here's George's glove still touching the canvas at 2:51:
      https://********/10ZIxV9KWgY?t=171

      Let's see...
      2:51 - 2:40 = 11 seconds.

      11 > 10

      KO!

      FACT!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
        Both Ali Liston bouts were investigated at that time and no evidence of a fix was found.

        Writers who want to make money try to find a new angle on an old subject. Then promote that angle as fact typically ignoring counter evidence.

        Many at ringside saw a blow capable of stopping Liston. Read the eye witness account via SI as one example.

        Read the frame by frame film analysis by Bud Schulburg. His conclusion was that Liston was hit by a blow he never saw coming as he stepped forward.

        Listons trainers testimony that Liston alone in his dressing room after the bout asked for smelling salts. He never asked for smelling salts before.

        Watch the force of the blow jerk Liston head/jaw. Note Listons legs spasm as he rolls onto his back. Watch Liston studder step after the bout is stopped and Sonny is walking mid ring as the crowd surrounds him.

        I could go on but the uneducated love conspiracies. Why should I rain on your parade?
        There is nothing wrong with revisiting a topic. I personally don't think the fight was thrown, but im willing to listen to research if it is credible and transparent.

        I guess we should also believe Kennedy was shot by one
        bullet because it was investigated? And there were two fights, the phantom punch is not the only possible problem. Liston was controlled by the mob to a degree, that has been established as well. There is nothing wrong with looking at a topic with fresh eyes and new witness accounts.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
          --- Do you deny Dundee used illegal smelling salts on Ali after Cooper knocked him down?

          That makes them both proven drug cheats in today's hyperventilating climate.

          Do you deny Sonny was a mob fighter and that no mob fighter would dare quit a fight without a mob directive?

          Do you deny Sonny died under dubious circumstance never properly investigated just weeks before scheduled to appear before Congress?

          Do you accept at face value the historically notorious ham handed bleeding into crooked Congress inept investigation of the fights sez much about your button down lack of awareness not only in boxing, but the greater world?

          Yeah, SI put GEORGE their front cover because noone wanted to see George rematch...NOONE!!!

          Snickers all around...
          Good points regarding the investigations and status of Night Train. Them button down guys sheesh!

          Comment


          • The Kennedy assassination is the classic example of a huge business being derived from a single historical event. So many books written! EACH with their own angle...Castro, Mafia, Johnson, bodyguards, and finally one book that really tried to promote the truth.

            Were you aware that those on the floor below where Oswald fired not only could hear the shots but also the casings hitting the floor after every shot?

            I’ve also visited the School book depository building in Dallas. The floor where Oswald fired from is now a museum. The exact area/window is blocked off by glass walls supposedly exactly as it was on that very day. When I visited I was with a friend of mine who is a hunter. He looked out the adjacent window to an X on the street where the fatal shot hit. His comment is that it was a “very easy shot”. I was actually quite shocked how short the distance actually was.

            I’ve read all the books written about Ali-Liston. I still go back to what my eyes see, the comments of Listons trainers regarding smelling salts, the effects in the ring of Liston staggering after the bout was halted, the SI eye witness testimony. Also Ali stopped other hwts with similar punches most notably Zory Foley. Ali developed excellent timing with his right hand landing that blow quickly just as opponents stepped in exacerbating the blows force.

            Comment


            • The point is the timing. His bout with Lyle to his retirement after losing so badly to Young was only a year. Prior to this he did not fight for a year and a half.

              George after being koed by Ali lost allot of stature in the public’s eyes. He was looked upon as so invincible and Ali knocked him out fairly easy. Then not fighting for so long pushed his name further out of the spotlight.

              Finally Dundee never loosened the ropes. Dundee stated this in interviews up to the year he died. He actually tightened the ropes fearing Ali would fall out of the ring. The TRUTH is that the ring was 18 foot (Zach Clayton however stated years later it was a 16 foot ring. It was the smallest ring he had ever seen). but the ropes that they had were for a larger ring. No matter how they tried they could not tighten the ropes enough. The small ring of course favored the puncher as did the heavily padded punchers canvas. One of the main reasons Ali stopped moving as much after round one was that canvas. Moving side to side on a heavily padded canvas is extremely exhausting.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
                --- Do you deny Dundee used illegal smelling salts on Ali after Cooper knocked him down?
                he used them because they were legal in america, and it was his first time in britain so didnt know the local non-use.
                They were not viewed as a drug in britain at all - they were viewed as potentially harmful to the fighter who might feel revived before he was fully recovered.
                Therefore the British stance was that he used them to possible detriment of ali, not to his advantage.

                In other words, you just talked shyt again.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
                  The Kennedy assassination is the classic example of a huge business being derived from a single historical event. So many books written! EACH with their own angle...Castro, Mafia, Johnson, bodyguards, and finally one book that really tried to promote the truth.

                  Were you aware that those on the floor below where Oswald fired not only could hear the shots but also the casings hitting the floor after every shot?

                  I’ve also visited the School book depository building in Dallas. The floor where Oswald fired from is now a museum. The exact area/window is blocked off by glass walls supposedly exactly as it was on that very day. When I visited I was with a friend of mine who is a hunter. He looked out the adjacent window to an X on the street where the fatal shot hit. His comment is that it was a “very easy shot”. I was actually quite shocked how short the distance actually was.

                  I’ve read all the books written about Ali-Liston. I still go back to what my eyes see, the comments of Listons trainers regarding smelling salts, the effects in the ring of Liston staggering after the bout was halted, the SI eye witness testimony. Also Ali stopped other hwts with similar punches most notably Zory Foley. Ali developed excellent timing with his right hand landing that blow quickly just as opponents stepped in exacerbating the blows force.
                  Having an informed opinion is different than claiming anyone who writes a book is a sensationalist. Its the same concept as people calling every college professor a "******* communist" and claiming a college education is a waste of money. I don't think a person needs to go to college but its a good thing to do considering most will spend the rest of their lives working for another. If you have an informed opinion more power to you.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DreamFighter View Post
                    he used them because they were legal in america, and it was his first time in britain so didnt know the local non-use.
                    They were not viewed as a drug in britain at all - they were viewed as potentially harmful to the fighter who might feel revived before he was fully recovered.
                    Therefore the British stance was that he used them to possible detriment of ali, not to his advantage.

                    In other words, you just talked shyt again.
                    Queeny taking a beatin'! The ring, the smelling salts... Im starting to feel the blows.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
                      Queeny taking a beatin'! The ring, the smelling salts... Im starting to feel the blows.
                      agreed,he ought to be called Queen Lamar Clark

                      Comment

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