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Wilder only weighed 9 lbs more than a prime Joe Louis

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  • #71
    We live in the 'Body Building culture' Anthony Joshua would not be weighing in at 240+ pounds if he lived and trained during Joe Louis era, or even back in the 60's/70's. It is a Illusion with some of these super heavyweights, I have stated this before? From a pure physical perspective, the 90's heavyweights may have been the most functional and imposing at times.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by PRINCEKOOL View Post
      We live in the 'Body Building culture' Anthony Joshua would not be weighing in at 240+ pounds if he lived and trained during Joe Louis era, or even back in the 60's/70's. It is a Illusion with some of these super heavyweights, I have stated this before? From a pure physical perspective, the 90's heavyweights may have been the most functional and imposing at times.
      He's put on 20-pounds or more of muscle over the years.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by OctoberRed View Post
        He's put on 20-pounds or more of muscle over the years.
        I know, but what I am stating is? The culture we live in today, especially in heavyweight boxing seems to be a body building one. Anthony Joshua is actually functionally at his weight but, many of the other super-heavyweights are useless in my eyes. Joshua would not be 240+ pounds if he was fighting in the Joe Louis era or in the 60's/70's. 'Take a look at his diet, and supplement regime' etc It is amusing the way Dillian Whyte used to call him a body builder, he has now bought into that philosophy, and as a result in my opinion he has regressed 'He cannot move, and endurance is below par in my opinion'

        Muhammad Ali was a lazy trainer people forget this, he would train to the level of whatever competition he was facing plus? Simple old school training, Long runs/walks in heavy boots, some floor work/bag work and sparring 'I wonder how many times he chopped wood' I am aware he did this before the forman fight? I am just making a example, and Muhammad Ali in terms of weight was 215-220 pounds at his best.

        Time and time again, with this mythical match ups. You have factor in the effects of the environment and culture. Would Tyson Fury survive in the 60's/70's? Would Anthony Joshua be a 240+ pounds Heavyweight? Who knows.

        My favorite heavyweight era's where the 70's,80's, 90's.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by PRINCEKOOL View Post
          I know, but what I am stating is? The culture we live in today, especially in heavyweight boxing seems to be a body building one. Anthony Joshua is actually functionally at his weight but, many of the other super-heavyweights are useless in my eyes. Joshua would not be 240+ pounds if he was fighting in the Joe Louis era or in the 60's/70's. 'Take a look at his diet, and supplement regime' etc It is amusing the way Dillian Whyte used to call him a body builder, he has now bought into that philosophy, and as a result in my opinion he has regressed 'He cannot move, and endurance is below par in my opinion'

          Muhammad Ali was a lazy trainer people forget this, he would train to the level of whatever competition he was facing plus? Simple old school training, Long runs/walks in heavy boots, some floor work/bag work and sparring 'I wonder how many times he chopped wood' I am aware he did this before the forman fight? I am just making a example, and Muhammad Ali in terms of weight was 215-220 pounds at his best.

          Time and time again, with this mythical match ups. You have factor in the effects of the environment and culture. Would Tyson Fury survive in the 60's/70's? Would Anthony Joshua be a 240+ pounds Heavyweight? Who knows.

          My favorite heavyweight era's where the 70's,80's, 90's.
          - -We also live in the most prolific drug culture that is now contaminating our waterways and wildlife. The boxing culture is now 12 rds, fewer fights, more belts and divisions, more sparring rds, and 10 point must scoring where knockdowns are scored, a huge difference from the past.

          Joe entered manhood in the middle of a Depression culture where in his 2nd year he had his first 15 rounder and fought his first ex champ with changeable scoring systems. Couple of his title fights were 20 rds that he never went, nor did he ever complete most 15s, he was a KO arteest back then, but guaranteed they had a different weight training back then. Weight training goes back to at least John L.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
            - -We also live in the most prolific drug culture that is now contaminating our waterways and wildlife. The boxing culture is now 12 rds, fewer fights, more belts and divisions, more sparring rds, and 10 point must scoring where knockdowns are scored, a huge difference from the past.

            Joe entered manhood in the middle of a Depression culture where in his 2nd year he had his first 15 rounder and fought his first ex champ with changeable scoring systems. Couple of his title fights were 20 rds that he never went, nor did he ever complete most 15s, he was a KO arteest back then, but guaranteed they had a different weight training back then. Weight training goes back to at least John L.
            Yes resistance training existed, I was just pointing out that? We are not in the body building culture. Boxers have always did resistance training of some form, some more than others. For example somebody like Mike Tyson? I think if you sent him back to the 60's, 70's and even Joe Louis era? He would pretty much be the same kind of fighter 'Because of his he trained at his best , and team Tyson's whole ideology' <<<< these are the things i think about when talking mythical match ups, mayweather, hopkins, lennox lewis all of guys could go back in time.

            Also good point, training for a 15 round fights surely must change things also. 'Imagine getting to round 10 in a war, and knowing there is 5 rounds more to go'.

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            • #76
              Wilder has done a great job proving that body weight isnt as important as everyone says when generating 'power'. At HW at least, where the more you weigh, generally the less coordinated and less able to transfer weight you are.

              Your weight on the scales is no where near as important as the amount of weight you can transfer into your opponents face, and how quickly you can do it.

              Equally, catching your opponents with shots they don't see because you have set up the punch well and/or you have good technique with no obvious giveaways for what shot you are going to throw. Or landing punches where you have drawn them onto your shot and amplified the power. All this stuff is important and Louis was ****ing amazing at all of them. Far better than Wilder (who is undoubtably the best HW puncher today).

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              • #77
                Holyfield started at 175. Joe Louis probably weighed that much when he was 16. Louis was in an era when you trained for boxing all you did was box. Watch him ref the ring with Frazier and quarry. He's a big man. Bigger than an Evander, who bulked into heavyweight and never had anything outside of an average punch.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by them_apples View Post
                  Evander, who bulked into heavyweight and never had anything outside of an average punch.
                  - -Field started heavy at 202 and riding 7 straight KOs including Tillis, Doaks, Thomas, undefeated Stewert and Douglas til Big George beat him up. His heavy record and KO% pretty much up in smoke in comparison to his fantastical start.

                  George softened him up physically and mentally like he did to others better than Field.

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                  • #79
                    the principles are the same

                    Human beings have always been subject to the same restraints. one does as they train to do. roadwork when done properly is part of how one moves in the ring, throwing punches...ditto. Fighters were better trained when they trained to fight in the ring. it is that simple.

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