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Wilder only weighed 9 lbs more than a prime Joe Louis

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  • #51
    Originally posted by New England View Post
    he does? like tommy hearns, for example. but he's not smaller than ray leonard, is he? or even marvin hagler, who never fought above MW for a reason

    wilder and louis have the same size calf

    yeah, louis had a larger thigh, but did it matter? who hits harder? who fights bigger guys regularly? who carries more body fat while weighing 15-20 lbs less?


    the point that wilder, who has 10 inches of reach, is 4-5 inches taller, and who typically outweighs louis in spite of being leaner, is a much, much bigger guy, and would absolutely dwarf louis if they stood next to each other [ or boxed.]


    and yes, louis still knocks him out. wilder can hardly box. but that doesn't mean these guys are the same size, because they are not!!!

    does the man hit hard or not? and has he taken all of the punishment he's needed thus far to stay upright? they're not carrying bundles of roofing, after all.
    Well it does kind of matter that his thigh is considerably bigger because that mass is useful when hitting. I don't think he would dwarf Louis, I could be mistaken. I will say that reach is a type of size... a guy who is tall and rangy can have considerable muscle mass, considering the relative weight of muscle as compared to fat.

    I agree with you on Wilder's talents. It matters as to how you categorize. As a boxer Wilder is not very talented. His talent is his punch and that is what he will live and die by. I would agree that if I am in his corner that is what we would work on. I would want him to thow a lead, something that resembles a jab but is thrown, at times, like Liston threw his jab (as more of a lead designed to take the person out).

    Wilder imo is like Haye...a talented athlete, with very few attributes as a boxer, but an ambush puncher...Both Haye and Wilder can get you from across the ring with their punch. Haye has fleet of foot, Wilder has a wild approach where it is hard to guage where the punch is coming from. Try to put on some gloves some time with a friend and have him throw a fast straight punch, once you get a hang for it you can block it.

    next have the same guy throw a punch with the arm slightly crooked coming from the back leg with full force. It is very hard to get your distance, timing and positioning right to deal with this punch, even though it should be easy to avoid. Now when Wilder starts running towards you and throws that punch, there is no way to see where he is going with it...if you watch him slo mo he throws at times from the hip, from the shoulder, from above (the most anatomically correct way to generate power on a strike).

    So Wilder has his methods and they are a puncher's ways. Now one would assume that a fighter who has developed and learned skills as such would be able to deal with Wilder's punch by avoiding it. That is why it is relevant to look at a guy like Joshua and understand that he should have the talent to avoid this big strike.

    One other thing: traditionally punchers are not always the biggest guys, They are often rangy...think Bob Foster, Foreman, even Liston really considering his reach.
    Last edited by billeau2; 03-25-2018, 04:50 PM.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
      Wilder imo is like Haye...a talented athlete, with very few attributes as a boxer, but an ambush puncher...Both Haye and Wilder can get you from across the ring with their punch. Haye has fleet of foot, Wilder has a wild approach where it is hard to guage where the punch is coming from. Try to put on some gloves some time with a friend and have him throw a fast straight punch, once you get a hang for it you can block it.
      Haye IMO is a much better overall fighter and boxer in comparison to Wilder.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by OctoberRed View Post
        Haye IMO is a much better overall fighter and boxer in comparison to Wilder.
        I think technically both are flawed guys by after Ortiz Wilder might be a guy who just makes his style work. Itís not Ďproperí but works for him and he never stops believing in his right

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        • #54
          Originally posted by New England View Post
          marvin hagler, who never fought above MW for a reason
          Obvious distaste for Marvelous

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          • #55
            Originally posted by Mr.MojoRisin' View Post
            Obvious distaste for Marvelous

            yeah, i hate a hard working, talented fighter who trained and fought out of a city i grew up doing business in


            i have an agenda because i know damn well 5'9" marvin hagler had no business fighting the very big, hard punching LHW of the 1980's. sheesh

            why don't you ask the petronelli brothers why hagler didn't fight in the LHW division? had nothign to do with the fact that all the money was coming up from lower weight classes, or that the guy was 5'9" and had no trouble making 160 lbs on the same day of the fight.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by New England View Post
              yeah, i hate a hard working, talented fighter who trained and fought out of a city i grew up doing business in


              i have an agenda because i know damn well 5'9" marvin hagler had no business fighting the very big, hard punching LHW of the 1980's. sheesh

              why don't you ask the petronelli brothers why hagler didn't fight in the LHW division? had nothign to do with the fact that all the money was coming up from lower weight classes, or that the guy was 5'9" and had no trouble making 160 lbs on the same day of the fight.
              It's just funny that you added "who never fought above MW for a reason".

              No need to get your panties in a bunch.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by Mr.MojoRisin' View Post
                It's just funny that you added "who never fought above MW for a reason".

                No need to get your panties in a bunch.
                New England usually goes commando, so no panties needed.

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                • #58
                  Haye never had the heart, desire, will to win that marks a truely great fighter. Wilder has shown these attributes in spurts. Time will tell if Wilder will eventually become a great hwt.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
                    Haye never had the heart, desire, will to win that marks a truely great fighter. Wilder has shown these attributes in spurts. Time will tell if Wilder will eventually become a great hwt.
                    You don't think Haye did in the Bellew fight?

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                    • #60
                      Yeah, in fact, Louis was about the same size as an early 90's Holyfield. Louis could indeed compete with SHW's.

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