Question for you history buffs...

[Geralt69]

I was about to write it would be a complicated mess, but I guess I should say it will be a complicated mess. I suspect such action is coming.

There is a charge called attempted murder but no attempted manslaughter . . .

the charge would be battery, whereas with loaded gloves the charge would rise to aggravated battery because a weapon is involved (the loaded gloves), but it would be a hard press to turn a legal prize fight into battery (a criminal act) because of drug use. All prize fights are already legalized battery.

The fighter with the drugs in his system, the juiced fighter, is already hitting the other fighter as hard as he can anyway so what part of the act could we call battery? Can we call the juice a 'weapon' and then make the charge aggravated battery? Maybe.

I think it is coming, but I see it as a civil tort resulting in a law suit; I can't see it becoming a criminal act, unless of course the juiced fighter, because of the drugs acts outside the proper parameters of the legal prize fight. e.g. attacking his unsuspecting opponent after the bell has clearly ended the fight.

I believe there has already been battery charges brought against fighters for doing just that, but if you add in the roids you might move the charge from battery to aggravated battery.

But if the juiced fighter hurts the other fighter within the confines of the game I don't think there is a criminal act happening. I can't see the juice being viewed as a deadly weapon, (like loaded gloves are) but maybe someday it will be.

I can see roid use being viewed as an act of gross negligence resulting in injury. I don't know how that will play out legally but I do think the premise will eventually be tested.

Well it depends what happens in a fight...
Clearly taking these substances gives a fighter a massive advantege.

Abraham was never on peds. I don’t know where that came from.

If he was I'm sure someone would have made a big deal about it at the time...

[Geralt69]

So no one can think of an example??

[krazyn8tive]

Abraham was never on peds. I don’t know where that came from.

Not Abraham but Taylor. I can't remember if he got popped for something or not

[Anthony342]

This gets into a whole theme in this section: One where Travesty brought up Dempsey for example. Traditionally when we look at a fighter we tend to see a sportsman, a man unshaken in his conviction that he is the best and need only compete in a fair environment to show his honorable intentions and that he is the better man.

This theme goes so far as to appeal to the schizophrenic American ideal where: "No man is an Island" competes with "Every man for himself." a place where like Dempsey we are to pick ourselves up by our bootstraps, no matter how big and strong the hobo may be, if I want to eat, let me be worthy!

Well... There is a whole other side to things. The fighter's business is such, we can imagine a bus on sesame street with a doctor wearing his stethoscope, a construction worker, his tool belt, and a boxer, in his trunks and robe...The boxer as someone who goes to work must seek to keep his body, the tools of his trade, in the best possible condition at all times. When we talk of wraps, medicines, steroidal preparations, in a sense this is what we are talking about. Fighters have always been looking for a way to heal faster, hit harder, etc and the law has always recognized that in this pursuit there is a grey area.

Toney when accused of steriods made the point that they were taken to heal an injury... this makes sense. As I have pointed out to some, fighters packing the hands traditionally at least, was to make sure the hands did not break, a real danger during a fight. And... we certainly would not yell at the doctor for making his stethoscope better so he could hear the heart valves better than the doc across town...nor would we lecture the costruction worker on weilding Thor's hammer itself!

Part of the issue is one of vocational integrity, and in so far as that is the case, there is a deliberate grey area where the law cannot be used to incriminate a fighter. Obviously some cross this line. All grey areas are like that, there will always be those that are sociopaths, con men, etc.

Steroids also seem to extend careers. It might also be why Holyfield was able to compete until 2011, Vitor Belfort was able to win fights in more recent years and is finally about to retire from the UFC and when people thought Roger Clemens' career was over after 1998, he lasted a few more years playing for the Yankees and that's when the steroid allegations began for him.

[billeau2]

Steroids also seem to extend careers. It might also be why Holyfield was able to compete until 2011, Vitor Belfort was able to win fights in more recent years and is finally about to retire from the UFC and when people thought Roger Clemens' career was over after 1998, he lasted a few more years playing for the Yankees and that's when the steroid allegations began for him.

Almost every time in history there were prohibitions and exhortations regarding what a fighter should do: Heres a great one actually! The ancient Greeks were very smart about nutrition. A nutritionalist was told that warriors competing in Olympic events would eat rare cooked Goat flesh before competing...This guy found that inevitably, the goat flesh eaters would wind first...probably because of the lactic acid in meat, and he suggested vegetarian cuisine for the contest...which turned out to boost performance considerably.

Its just par for the course that some things are allowed others prohibited. Steriods are really no exception imo.

[Geralt69]

Steroids also seem to extend careers. It might also be why Holyfield was able to compete until 2011, Vitor Belfort was able to win fights in more recent years and is finally about to retire from the UFC and when people thought Roger Clemens' career was over after 1998, he lasted a few more years playing for the Yankees and that's when the steroid allegations began for him.

Imagine if already great fighters of the past had access to some of the "captain america serum" that modern fighters take....

Almost every time in history there were prohibitions and exhortations regarding what a fighter should do: Heres a great one actually! The ancient Greeks were very smart about nutrition. A nutritionalist was told that warriors competing in Olympic events would eat rare cooked Goat flesh before competing...This guy found that inevitably, the goat flesh eaters would wind first...probably because of the lactic acid in meat, and he suggested vegetarian cuisine for the contest...which turned out to boost performance considerably.

Its just par for the course that some things are allowed others prohibited. Steriods are really no exception imo.

If I'm reading this right....
You are pro peds???

[billeau2]

Imagine if already great fighters of the past had access to some of the "captain america serum" that modern fighters take....




If I'm reading this right....
You are pro peds???

Nope...I am not for or against, its a complex issue.

[Geralt69]

Nope...I am not for or against,

Oh ok....

its a complex issue.

Yes it is....

[OctoberRed]

Not Abraham but Taylor. I can't remember if he got popped for something or not

I dont think Taylor ever got popped for anything.