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it was real in the sense it could knock u down, not real beleivable for a ko in that fight though, liston could take sum good punches, he showed that before.
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If Ali had a conventional style he would never have landed that punch on Liston. Conventional fundamentals would teach parrying Liston's jab with his right glove then countering with his own jab.
The Liston knockdown in slow motion is freakish in how quick Ali's reflexes, timing and punching accuracy were. As Liston begins throwing the jab Ali whose hands are low is already reacting. When Liston's jab fully extends it falls short hitting Ali's shoulder (remember Liston had a longer reach) slightly out of range before Ali moves in range and connects right on the button. A lightning quick counterpunch for any fighter to land much less a heavyweight.
Ali's unconventional "lack of basic boxing fundamentals" was his strength not his weakness. It allowed him to do things other fighters couldn't and give opponents things they had never seen before. If Ali used a standard conventional fighting style he would never have had the success he did.
There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves, the speed, the punches and the way he changes style every time you think you got him figured. The right hands Ali hit me with just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anyone who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast that I never saw it. He has lots of snap, and when the punches land they dizzy your head; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I've seen. He's had twenty-nine fights and acts like he's had a hundred. He could write the book on boxing, and anyone that fights him should be made to read it.
- Zora FolleyComment
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Its quite possible that the right hand dropped Sonny legitimately.... if this was the case im pretty sure Sonny gave up on the canvas, he could of got up before the 10 count was completed.Comment
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Take it for what it was. A sharp right hand counter on the chin which took Liston's knees out, enough for him to drop to the canvas. The right hand counter was similar in placement to Archie Moore's right hand on Marciano's chin which dropped the Rock. A knockdown punch doesn't necessarily have to be loaded and tourque a fighters head around sending beads of sweat flying. It wasn't the case with Ali dropping Liston or Moore dropping Marciano. Check out Liston's one punch KO of Albert Westphal. A perfect right hand on the sweet spot of the chin and Westphal goes down like he was shot.Originally posted by Heckler
Had Ali went immediately to a corner Liston would have gotten right back up again. The problem was Ali kept standing over him telling him to get up and acting like he was about to hit Liston on the way up. In retrospect it was the right thing for Liston to do and referee Walcott made the wrong decision in awarding Ali a KO victory as the count is not supposed to start until the fighter goes to a neutral corner.
There were alot of factors confusing matters. A proposed in the ring sniper assisination of Ali (retalliation the for Malcolm X murder), Liston's underworld connections, a punch that at regular speed didn't look like it landed, the su****ious quitting on his stool in the first fight, and the fact that Liston who had a good chin was floored so quickly and easily.
Ali was looked at with su****ion early in his career, especially when he was accurately predicting the rounds his opponents would be stopped. The Liston fights and theories compounded these su****ions.Last edited by SABBATH; 06-02-2006, 05:56 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by SABBATH
sabbath you are the biggest tyson hater and the biggest ali nut licker of all time . Ali knocked out liston with a legit punch buckled his knee what bull**** if that was a legit knockout then how come there is so much speculation about taking a dive because he did . Ali knocked down cleveland willams loads of time so what willams always had a glass chin and was litreally shot and had severed nerves in his leg . Ali could of knocked down floyd patterson if he wanted to yeah right ali said himself that he tried to knock out patterson but he couldnt and patterson had oneof the worst chins . Ye ali nuthuggers are trying to make out that ali had power . Ali didnt have any power according to doug jones he couldnt crack a ****in egg.Comment
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According to doug jones... according to George Foreman 'Ali was one of the hardest punchers i ever faced, hes deceptive.. catches you with that lead right when you walk in' Ali said both BEFORE and AFTER the patterson fight he's not going to knock him out he's going to punish him, the same applies to the Terell fight. Cleveland Williams was no longer at his physical peak, but that does not compromise the integrity of his jaw.Comment
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You can spare yourself the poorly articulated response by actually comprehending what I wrote. I said KNOCKDOWN not KNOCKOUT dumbass.Originally posted by catskills23
"Ali knocked me down with a sharp punch. I was down but not hurt, but I looked up and saw Ali standing over me. Now there is no way to get up from the canvas that you are not exposed to a great shot. Ali is waiting to hit me, the ref can't control him. I have to put one knee and one glove on the canvas to get up. You know Ali is a nut. You can tell what a normal man is going to do, but you can't tell what a nut is going to do, and Ali is a nut"
-Sonny ListonLast edited by SABBATH; 06-02-2006, 10:31 PM.Comment
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Rofl that quote amuses me. Im intreigued with Sonny Listons persona... any one know of a decent book about him?Comment
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Originally posted by Heckler
Heckler,
This one is pretty good.Comment
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Prior to Ali stopping Williams his only KO losses were to Sonny Liston and Bob Satterfield two of the hardest hitting heavyweights of all time over the span of 15 years and 71 fights. How exactly does this qualify as guy with a glass chin?Originally posted by catskills23Comment
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