For those of you who put think Marciano is overrated

[billeau2]

Marciano's defensive wizardry is shamefully undervalued and consistently minimized. If guys like Clay, Moore and Walcott say you are hard to hit--guess what--you are, mǝn. He was a T-rex for reach, but hard to reach. It was always longer arms trying to hit him, which he gave so much trouble. Everyone was built like a gorilla next to the Rock.

He would wear down the majority of today's overgrown galoots with stamina and evasiveness, mǝn, then move in once they were easy sides of meat. It does not take but a few rounds for the big boys to huff and puff like buffalo. Meanwhile, Rock is now ready to fight. He is warmed up. He wears 'em down with defense then moves in with offense when they are helpless slabs, mǝn.

What gets me is that because Marciano still has an active fan base among knowledgable boxing fans, there is tape all over the place analyzing his work. It does not take long to see that his defense was subtle and underrated. He tended to slip punches at a greater distance away from the opponent than most fighters, prolly because of his small reach.

Marciano did something else that was very special... Im guessing, as someone who has caught in baseball, that Marciano figured out that throwing to second (on the steal) is a good mechanic to apply to the punch. Despite his height Marciano hit down on his opponents. This is the way we were built to punch and most trained fighters do not do this. It gave Marciano a lot of power...heavy hands.

[Steveferocious]

Marciano Was really good for a very small heavyweigh

Louis was 37 way past prime and had something wrong couldn't throw his right.
Walcott 6’ about 196 had Rock desperately clinching to survive after knockdown in 1 st. Rock outlasted the 38 year old to his credit.
Charles was 6’ and low 180s in prime he was around 190 for fights with rock. He had just lost to Nino Valdez and Harold JohnSon the light heavy before fights with Rock. Beat 2 lesser guys after that to come to the title shot. In a tough close fight Rock wore the 34 year old somewhat shopworn Charles down and finished strong to get the decision.
Archie Moore was a 41 year old light heavy weight who the next year would be totally dominated and starched in 5 by a Patterson still far from his prime. Wow guess then Patterson was a super great heavy champ.

[Anthony342]

Louis was 37 way past prime and had something wrong couldn't throw his right.
Walcott 6’ about 196 had Rock desperately clinching to survive after knockdown in 1 st. Rock outlasted the 38 year old to his credit.
Charles was 6’ and low 180s in prime he was around 190 for fights with rock. He had just lost to Nino Valdez and Harold JohnSon the light heavy before fights with Rock. Beat 2 lesser guys after that to come to the title shot. In a tough close fight Rock wore the 34 year old somewhat shopworn Charles down and finished strong to get the decision.
Archie Moore was a 41 year old light heavy weight who the next year would be totally dominated and starched in 5 by a Patterson still far from his prime. Wow guess then Patterson was a super great heavy champ.

Also would go on to KO Charles in the 8th round in their rematch.

[ShoulderRoll]

Charles was a blown up light heavyweight. Who was no longer even a factor at the top of the 175 lbs division after losses there as mentioned above.

[QueensburyRules]

Charles was a blown up light heavyweight. Who was no longer even a factor at the top of the 175 lbs division after losses there as mentioned above.

- -U never being a factor in anything cancels out U
False perception.

Ez defended his heavy title 8-9x.

[Dr. Z]

To answer your question, yes, they did. and foster ko'd frazier in six rounds. But we all know what happened when they fought for real.

and ali was past his prime against norton.

Hold on. Ali past his prime for Norton? Not buying that one. He was 31 years old and active. Norton simply whipped him and IMO if the fight was 15 rounds might have stopped Ali.

Also after losing to Norton, Ali defeated Frazier and Foreman, and Lyle. If he was past his prime, he doesn't win these matches.

[Dr. Z]

The thing about Marciano, if he finished his career 49-1, no one would talk about him, at least not in the same tone or context. There wouldn’t be any controversy surrounding him.

Undefeated fighters always get the microscope treatment.

In Rocky's case he likely lost a close in with LaStarza in the first fight, and I have seen some in the press give to Lowry the first fight was well.

"Michael J. Thomas of the Providence Journal wrote, "Marciano did not win the fight. This reporter gave it to Lowry, six rounds to four.”

The crowd of 3,696 booed the decision and some wondered if Lowry had thrown the fight. "There were some questions as to whether Lowry, who had come close to knocking out Marciano in the second, third and fourth rounds, deliberately bogged down in his attack after the fourth stanza," Thomas wrote. "Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth. He went into a shell and only occasionally landed power shots. He seemed to be carrying Marciano."

In his book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of His Times, Russell Sullivan wrote the following:

"It was Lowry, not Marciano, who was on the verge of scoring an early knockout, stinging Marciano with two terrific rights in the first round and then rocking him with two mighty uppercuts in the second. By the fourth, a staggered Marciano seemed just one punch away from being knocked out. But then, inexplicably, Lowry stopped fighting and retreated into a shell despite warnings from the referee to open up and a cascade of boos from the crowd. To many, it appeared that Lowry was deliberately carrying Marciano. Was foul play afoot? Was Lowry getting paid to lose? Or was he merely tiring? Whatever the reason, a revived Marciano managed to rally in the late rounds even though many of his punches missed their mark or lacked force. On the basis of his aggressiveness and constant punching, Marciano won a unanimous decision from the judges. Most observers felt, however, that Lowry should have won."


Lowry, who earned $2,500 for the fight, denied he threw the fight. "I beat Rocky that night and that’s it," he said. "He changed his strategy in the fifth round and made a fight of it, but I won two of the last six rounds after winning the first four. It was a hometown decision."

[QueensburyRules]

- -Scoring in boxing the worst of pro sports because it's not transparent and incomprehensible and open to fraud.

[ShoulderRoll]

- -U never being a factor in anything cancels out U
False perception.

Ez defended his heavy title 8-9x.

Why U always crying?

Ezzard Charles lost to Nino Valdes and Harold Johnson less than a year before losing to Rocky Marciano.

So how impressive is that win really for Marciano?

[GhostofDempsey]

Undefeated fighters always get the microscope treatment.

In Rocky's case he likely lost a close in with LaStarza in the first fight, and I have seen some in the press give to Lowry the first fight was well.

"Michael J. Thomas of the Providence Journal wrote, "Marciano did not win the fight. This reporter gave it to Lowry, six rounds to four.”

The crowd of 3,696 booed the decision and some wondered if Lowry had thrown the fight. "There were some questions as to whether Lowry, who had come close to knocking out Marciano in the second, third and fourth rounds, deliberately bogged down in his attack after the fourth stanza," Thomas wrote. "Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth. He went into a shell and only occasionally landed power shots. He seemed to be carrying Marciano."

In his book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of His Times, Russell Sullivan wrote the following:

"It was Lowry, not Marciano, who was on the verge of scoring an early knockout, stinging Marciano with two terrific rights in the first round and then rocking him with two mighty uppercuts in the second. By the fourth, a staggered Marciano seemed just one punch away from being knocked out. But then, inexplicably, Lowry stopped fighting and retreated into a shell despite warnings from the referee to open up and a cascade of boos from the crowd. To many, it appeared that Lowry was deliberately carrying Marciano. Was foul play afoot? Was Lowry getting paid to lose? Or was he merely tiring? Whatever the reason, a revived Marciano managed to rally in the late rounds even though many of his punches missed their mark or lacked force. On the basis of his aggressiveness and constant punching, Marciano won a unanimous decision from the judges. Most observers felt, however, that Lowry should have won."


Lowry, who earned $2,500 for the fight, denied he threw the fight. "I beat Rocky that night and that’s it," he said. "He changed his strategy in the fifth round and made a fight of it, but I won two of the last six rounds after winning the first four. It was a hometown decision."

Marciano got to Charles after Ezzard had killed a man in the ring, he was not the same fighter afterwards. In rocky’s last fight he got dropped by an over-the-hill light heavyweight. The writing was on the wall in the HW division. If he hung around much longer he is faced with prime Cleveland Williams, Patterson, and Liston, all of whom knock him out.